If pac fought marquez after oscar...

[erics44]

so to summarise i think barring a KO pac struggles with marquez but is slightly better over the distance and that would be the same at any point in their carears

what do you think?

I agree with that.
Marquez needs the ko all the time to win.

do you agree with the controversy of the 3rd fight?

i didnt see it live and from reading the press and forums after the fight it seemed pac had been gifted

I think they gave it to pac due to the aggression. It could have went either way if im being honest.

Whenever these guys fight its always close.

When they fought for the 3rd time pacs camp were so cocky as they were used to the weight and everything and they fought it would be so easy.

I even remember alex ariza saying something like even "God cant help marquez."

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

perhaps marquez won a couple of rounds more clearly but i think pac won the majority

pacs camp seemed very confident this time too, i think the emphasis on getting the KO from his camp lost pac the fight

[Beanflicker]

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

I hate when guys get the nod for aggression. Boxing is supposed to be the sweet science, the art of hitting without being hit. Effective aggressiveness is one thing, but if a guy is throwing and missing a lot, I don't think you should win the fight on that.

Marquez outfoxed him, plain and simple.

[ruthless rocco]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

[DavilaJones]

I'll say this though, ever since his KO loss there has been far less visceral hatred of Manny on this forum as well as many others. I wonder if Floyd were to lose, would people be kind towards him too all of the sudden?

As for the original question. I think Manual would always bring trouble to Manny same way Willie Pep and Sandy Saddler were the antithesis of one another.

[p4pking]

You have to remember here that Marquez didn't first look nearly as effective above 140 as he has over the last year and a half or so. If he'd taken on Pacquiao at welterweight right after he was going life or death with Katsidis and Juan Diaz at 135, I think there's a good chance he wouldn't have been strong enough or had the punch to handle him the same way. Not to say it wouldn't have still been a hard fight, but it probably would've looked more like the 2nd(which I thought Manny won) than the 3rd at that time imo.
However, hate to say I'd put money on neither men having been clean fighters over the last few years, so the timing of their moving up in weight is almost a moot point imo. Bottom line is Marquez has Pacquiaos number but not the raw tools or athletecism, it's a coin toss every time assuming they both prepared the right way.
As an aside, does anyone think Marquez could've really performed on the same level that Pacquiao did against the "handpicked" opponents he took on during his tear up the weights? Aside from the corpse of De La Hoya, I think Marquez may well have lost to every single opponent Manny fought aside from him above lightweight.

[imp]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

Lol. Lance armstrong?

[Julius Rain]

Pac is an atg despite what anybody says. The only boxer to win titles in 8 division. If that alone doesn't merit an all time great, he wouldn't be the only boxer to have done it.

Haters talk about his catch weight fights but miss the point that he isn't the only one in history to do this plus the fact that he is coming from a smaller weight at that time.

Others want to talk about Pacs fight with Marquez. These two had 3 close fights and that is the honest truth. If you are to say one had it winning decisively than you are blind or bias. The 4th fight Marquez ended with the perfect punch but can anybody say Marquez was decisively winning that fight before he landed that once in a lifetime punch? Now if Pac was to have landed that punch, excuses would be Marquez is a year from 40!

I guess most if not everything said is just opinions. Bottom line is Pac and many of the fighters he fought will be remembered for a long time. Pac wreck havoc in this decade and gave life back to boxing, enough said.

[ruthless rocco]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

Lol. Lance armstrong?

Yeah! He dominated cycling for a decade and seemed unstoppable doing it...but the truth caught up to his legend. Whoops! Who knows what we may learn about pacman in the future!

[CFH]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

Lol. Lance armstrong?

Woosh...

[imp]

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

I hate when guys get the nod for aggression. Boxing is supposed to be the sweet science, the art of hitting without being hit. Effective aggressiveness is one thing, but if a guy is throwing and missing a lot, I don't think you should win the fight on that.

Marquez outfoxed him, plain and simple.

This is another good point but unfortunately the judges were from top rank..aggression wins if it goes to points and manny is fighting.

Another point someone mentioned which i agree with is the general distain fans have which isnt for manny but its for the camp.

You cant fault manny as a person as he comes across as a gentleman whether he wins or looses.

Its the freddie roach predictions and the alex ariza perfect fitness regime and the hundred hangers on his camp on that can touch a nerve..and what is the purpose of manager michael c&ntz..sorry koncz.

[erics44]

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

I hate when guys get the nod for aggression. Boxing is supposed to be the sweet science, the art of hitting without being hit. Effective aggressiveness is one thing, but if a guy is throwing and missing a lot, I don't think you should win the fight on that.

Marquez outfoxed him, plain and simple.

i dont agree, i think pac landed more (in more of the rounds) too, perhaps at times marquezes punches looked better because pac was coming on to them

and agression is a big part of boxing, you have to remember it is a spectators sport and suppose to be entertainment, if everyone fought on the back foot it would be a lot less appealing

[Beanflicker]

and agression is a big part of boxing, you have to remember it is a spectators sport and suppose to be entertainment, if everyone fought on the back foot it would be a lot less appealing

Effective aggression is a big part of boxing. Uneffective aggression is a big part of street fighting.

I understand it's a spectator sport, but the "sport" part should always hold the most weight. Backing a guy up and punching air shouldn't win you a fight.

[THE THIRD MAN]

I'm not sure why anyone is critical of Pacman. He fought Barrera twice, Morales 3 times, Marquez 4 times, DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley and my guess is fans of those guys just got their nose out of joint when their guy lost?
Age and other distractions have finally caught up with Pacquiao, he has struggled since Marquez 3 and i'm one of the few who thought he lost to Bradley. It was no surprise to see him knocked out cold by Marquez in the 4th fight. He has had a great career beginning as a Flyweight and it is truly remarkable that he has won titles in so many divisions above that. I couldn't care less if he fought guys at catchweight either, he won those fights. DLH was poorly handled physically and that was his fault, Hatton just got nailed and he beat up on Cotto and Margarito. Mosley has been finished for years. Now it is Pacman's turn to see the other side of the hill. He's done.