If pac fought marquez after oscar...

[Beanflicker]

I've been one of the few who had said it all along, I would give him the credit he deserved but wouldn't gush over him like if he was some God, Pacquiao would nit pick his opponents and always seek some "advantage" rather taking on an opponent on even terms, he only decided to take on Marquez in the 3rd fight because Floyd had taken him apart but won by decision so he figured since JMM was older he could get the stoppage and was completely schooled in the process, had a bad showing against Bradley then decided to take on Marquez again but again he paid dearly for it

I've never been a fan of Pacquaio (thats only because he beat a lot of fighters I really liked) and I never bought him as the guy who would dethrone Floyd. I always thought it was lame that he made guys come down and meet him at a catch weight.

But that being said, what he accomplished over the last 7 years or so is nothing short of incredible. Pacquiao is a legend in the sport and has a solid argument for top 10 p4p of all time IMHO.

For him to come from 130 and a year or two later be steamrolling 140, 147, and 154lbers is just remarkable.

[Master]

If Pac fought JMM after he had beaten ODH then Pac Man would have been firm favourite to win. He was on a impressive roll and was probably at his peak of his powers. Manny would always have stylistic problems with JMM but would have got the victory because JMM did not look impressive at a welterweight when he fought Floyd at welterweight.

[ruthless rocco]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

[DavilaJones]

I'll say this though, ever since his KO loss there has been far less visceral hatred of Manny on this forum as well as many others. I wonder if Floyd were to lose, would people be kind towards him too all of the sudden?

As for the original question. I think Manual would always bring trouble to Manny same way Willie Pep and Sandy Saddler were the antithesis of one another.

[p4pking]

You have to remember here that Marquez didn't first look nearly as effective above 140 as he has over the last year and a half or so. If he'd taken on Pacquiao at welterweight right after he was going life or death with Katsidis and Juan Diaz at 135, I think there's a good chance he wouldn't have been strong enough or had the punch to handle him the same way. Not to say it wouldn't have still been a hard fight, but it probably would've looked more like the 2nd(which I thought Manny won) than the 3rd at that time imo.
However, hate to say I'd put money on neither men having been clean fighters over the last few years, so the timing of their moving up in weight is almost a moot point imo. Bottom line is Marquez has Pacquiaos number but not the raw tools or athletecism, it's a coin toss every time assuming they both prepared the right way.
As an aside, does anyone think Marquez could've really performed on the same level that Pacquiao did against the "handpicked" opponents he took on during his tear up the weights? Aside from the corpse of De La Hoya, I think Marquez may well have lost to every single opponent Manny fought aside from him above lightweight.

[imp]

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

I hate when guys get the nod for aggression. Boxing is supposed to be the sweet science, the art of hitting without being hit. Effective aggressiveness is one thing, but if a guy is throwing and missing a lot, I don't think you should win the fight on that.

Marquez outfoxed him, plain and simple.

This is another good point but unfortunately the judges were from top rank..aggression wins if it goes to points and manny is fighting.

Another point someone mentioned which i agree with is the general distain fans have which isnt for manny but its for the camp.

You cant fault manny as a person as he comes across as a gentleman whether he wins or looses.

Its the freddie roach predictions and the alex ariza perfect fitness regime and the hundred hangers on his camp on that can touch a nerve..and what is the purpose of manager michael c&ntz..sorry koncz.

[imp]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

Lol. Lance armstrong?

[Julius Rain]

Pac is an atg despite what anybody says. The only boxer to win titles in 8 division. If that alone doesn't merit an all time great, he wouldn't be the only boxer to have done it.

Haters talk about his catch weight fights but miss the point that he isn't the only one in history to do this plus the fact that he is coming from a smaller weight at that time.

Others want to talk about Pacs fight with Marquez. These two had 3 close fights and that is the honest truth. If you are to say one had it winning decisively than you are blind or bias. The 4th fight Marquez ended with the perfect punch but can anybody say Marquez was decisively winning that fight before he landed that once in a lifetime punch? Now if Pac was to have landed that punch, excuses would be Marquez is a year from 40!

I guess most if not everything said is just opinions. Bottom line is Pac and many of the fighters he fought will be remembered for a long time. Pac wreck havoc in this decade and gave life back to boxing, enough said.

[AdamGB]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

Several people said the latter.

[ruthless rocco]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

Lol. Lance armstrong?

Yeah! He dominated cycling for a decade and seemed unstoppable doing it...but the truth caught up to his legend. Whoops! Who knows what we may learn about pacman in the future!

[CFH]

pac's accomplishments over the years have been nothing short of incredible. he reminds me of lance armstrong and his dominance over the sport of cycling.

no challenge too big, no opponents too strong... no doubt achieved with dedication, hard work and natural talent.

Lol. Lance armstrong?

Woosh...

[CFH]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

Both can be true. Pacquiao is an great fighter who has accomplished some very impressive things. However, since the ODH fight the cards have pretty much always been stacked in his favour. That doesn't mean what he managed to do isn't great, but it is the reality of the situation.

He could get KO'd 5 times in a row at this point and would still be an atg in my mind.

[Beanflicker]

Manny would always have stylistic problems with JMM but would have got the victory because JMM did not look impressive at a welterweight when he fought Floyd at welterweight.

I think JMM looked like shit against Floyd for stylistic/skill reasons, not because of the weight. Floyd didn't use his size advantage to beat JMM, he out-"little guyed" the little guy with speed and skill.

[erics44]

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

I hate when guys get the nod for aggression. Boxing is supposed to be the sweet science, the art of hitting without being hit. Effective aggressiveness is one thing, but if a guy is throwing and missing a lot, I don't think you should win the fight on that.

Marquez outfoxed him, plain and simple.

i dont agree, i think pac landed more (in more of the rounds) too, perhaps at times marquezes punches looked better because pac was coming on to them

and agression is a big part of boxing, you have to remember it is a spectators sport and suppose to be entertainment, if everyone fought on the back foot it would be a lot less appealing

[THE THIRD MAN]

I'm not sure why anyone is critical of Pacman. He fought Barrera twice, Morales 3 times, Marquez 4 times, DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley and my guess is fans of those guys just got their nose out of joint when their guy lost?
Age and other distractions have finally caught up with Pacquiao, he has struggled since Marquez 3 and i'm one of the few who thought he lost to Bradley. It was no surprise to see him knocked out cold by Marquez in the 4th fight. He has had a great career beginning as a Flyweight and it is truly remarkable that he has won titles in so many divisions above that. I couldn't care less if he fought guys at catchweight either, he won those fights. DLH was poorly handled physically and that was his fault, Hatton just got nailed and he beat up on Cotto and Margarito. Mosley has been finished for years. Now it is Pacman's turn to see the other side of the hill. He's done.