Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr

[Spicoli]

Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start

I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.

True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.

No, he wasn't obligated. Your right. Afterall he was a shot caller and the major attraction. But at the same time he was soaked in an air of entitlement and presumption of certainty when in fact there was better challenges to be had. They literally put him on a broadway stage in a top hat with showgirls FFS. Roy was about being Roy and can't say he owned an era or faced all the top dogs. He was all about 'they don't pay me enough to take those risks'. He can hang his hat on an early Hopkins and Toney of course. Shit I think he psyched Toney out before the bell rang and am not one to by all that talk about Toney being a fat slob etc. Equally all the talk about 'if Roy had not gone to heavy he would be an all time great' etc. So what. Thats on him...thats his doing. I mean if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped? I also think his Hill win was one of the better ones. But all this God speak grew tired and watching him cling to shadows now is really a bit sad, for him and of him. I think we missed some gems of matches! Hypotheticals are exactly that, and its much much more believable to watch a guy defeat opponents than to say he will just because. He wasn't some cyborg, and in the end it turns out he bled too.

[ross]

Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.

He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.

[imp]

Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.

He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.

Lol..so blinded.

I would like to see benn, eubank, collins and calzaghe move up and deal with that ruiz..

From middle to heavyweight..that alone shows what risks Rjj took to make history.

[ross]

Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.

He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.

Lol..so blinded.

I would like to see benn, eubank, collins and calzaghe move up and deal with that ruiz..

From middle to heavyweight..that alone shows what risks Rjj took to make history.

Depends on whether he did that jump clean eh...

[ruthless rocco]

looking closely at roy's record i've noticed that he often fought guys who had lost in the recent bouts. examples of this are his fights against
tony thornton(lost to toney)
eric lucas(lost to tiozzo)
mike mccallum(lost to tiozzo)
virgil hill(lost to michalczewski)


...and many of his opponents had also recently been fighting guys with questionable records like these
22-8-1
17-14-1
12-12-2
11-23-8
9-4-0
2-3-0
which begs the question of how they got ranked let alone given top contender status.

[IamInuit]

looking closely at roy's record i've noticed that he often fought guys who had lost in the recent bouts. examples of this are his fights against
tony thornton(lost to toney)
eric lucas(lost to tiozzo)
mike mccallum(lost to tiozzo)
virgil hill(lost to michalczewski)


...and many of his opponents had also recently been fighting guys with questionable records like these
22-8-1
17-14-1
12-12-2
11-23-8
9-4-0
2-3-0
which begs the question of how they got ranked let alone given top contender status.

They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.

[ruthless rocco]

They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.

but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.

roy made that assertion daily.

[IamInuit]

They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.

but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.

roy made that assertion daily.

But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.

[imp]

Canelo needs to man up and fight trout. Period.

As for roy jones, steve collins would never have been an issue.

Roy is just trying to keep his name relevant and make as much money as he can..thats what he wants to do and i hope it all works out for him.

[IamInuit]

Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start

I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.

True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.

No, he wasn't obligated. Your right. Afterall he was a shot caller and the major attraction. But at the same time he was soaked in an air of entitlement and presumption of certainty when in fact there was better challenges to be had. They literally put him on a broadway stage in a top hat with showgirls FFS. Roy was about being Roy and can't say he owned an era or faced all the top dogs. He was all about 'they don't pay me enough to take those risks'. He can hang his hat on an early Hopkins and Toney of course. Shit I think he psyched Toney out before the bell rang and am not one to by all that talk about Toney being a fat slob etc. Equally all the talk about 'if Roy had not gone to heavy he would be an all time great' etc. So what. Thats on him...thats his doing. I mean if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped? I also think his Hill win was one of the better ones. But all this God speak grew tired and watching him cling to shadows now is really a bit sad, for him and of him. I think we missed some gems of matches! Hypotheticals are exactly that, and its much much more believable to watch a guy defeat opponents than to say he will just because. He wasn't some cyborg, and in the end it turns out he bled too.

Agreed. My only points really are that they were all self centred, egocentric and all share the blame and that the calender or timing was also a factor. As a die hard Jones fan its embarrassing to watch him now. He should have retired after Ruiz.