Good Article on Jack Dempsey

[Rantcatrat]

This article puts a new spin on Dempsey's invincible aura. It posits that he avoided fighting Harry Greb for years. What do you think?

[Master]

That was the golden age of boxing in terms of fans in stadiums to watch the fights.

Dempsey used the title for his own money making work and fought when he needed too as glorified sparring sessions against some opponents. He did avoid Harry Wills but did not know about Grebb.

[IamInuit]

Nice little find @Rantcatrat. I'm a little bias when it comes to Greb but there is little doubt in my mind that Dempsey's team avoided him and the chronological record supports it. Makes one wonder why they kept hiring Greb for sparring. Here are some other tidbits you might find interesting.

March 15, 1920

Dempsey May Box Greb

New York, March 15,- Jack Dempsey is coming East in three weeks, according to Jim Mason, manager of Harry Greb. Mason insists that the champion and Greb are to fight a ten-round bout in Buffalo, May 31. Mason says that Greb will be a tartar like Willie Meehan on the hands of Dempsey.

Nov 30, 1920

Greb May Meet Dempsey

Fitzsimmons on Way to Sign Champion Bout

South Bend, Ind., Nov 29--Floyd Fitzsimmons of Benton Harbor, Mich., passed through South Bend today en route to New York, where he expects to sign Jack Dempsey for a ten-round fight with Harry Greb of Pittsburgh,Pa.

The trip, Fitzsimmons states, is being made in response to a call from Dempsey for him to come East.

Greb has been trying to get into the ring with Dempsey for several months, and he has been especially eager to meet the champion since beating Gunboat Smith in one round of a ten-round battle in this city about six weeks ago.

Fitzsimmons is reported to have promised Greb to do his best to sign the Dempsey match, providing Greb first defeats Eddie McGoorty, one of the best of the light-heavyweights

March 21, 1922

Dempsey Will Give Greb Chance to Win Heavyweight Crown

Up to Public

Chicago, March 20,-Jack Dempsey will fight Harry Greb if there is any demand for the match, he said here today when he stopped off between trains on his way to Los Angeles.

"It is possible that I might get a match with Harry Greb," he said, "and if I do and there is a call or a demand for it, I surely will take it."

April 12, 1922

Dempsey Will Box Greb After Tour

Manager Kearns Says They Will Meet Outdoors in Philadelphia in 8-Round Bout.

"Dempsey will probably return home in time to take on Harry Greb in an eight-round, no-decision affair outdoors in Philadelphia. I am reliably told the public really wants the affair to be brought off, and we would like to see Harry make some money, even if he gets mussed up a bit in doing it, to convince him that the best middleweight isn't heavy enough for the big fellow in the game."

Ring 1922

"Even Doc Kearns, who was managing Jack Dempsey, refused to let his tiger in the ring with Greb. They did spar on two occasions. The first time was when Dempsey was getting ready for his title defense against Billy Miske in Benton Harbor, Michigan. Greb ripped into dempsey, punching the heaveyweight champion as he pleased, until Kearns finally threw him out of the ring for being too rough."

Boxing Mag 1954

------"It is not generally known however, that Greb and Dempsey did actually meet in the ring. It was at Jack's Atlantic City training camp. They were to box four rounds with sixteen ounce training gloves. Jack Kearns refereed. Harry came snorting out of his corner raising hell with the heaveyweight champion's middle. Dempsey looked confused, he hesitated about throwing punches at first. But he became desperate along about the second round and started putting ginger behind his left hooks. But Greb raced around so fast and poked so many jabs into Jack's face that the great Mauler couldn't land one solid wallop during the entire exhibition. The next day, in bold black type the size off an egg, some papers carried the headline "GREB MAKES DEMPSEY LOOK LIKE A KITTEN."

From the book Give Him to the Angels

-----Next, he'll run roughshod over Dempsey for the heavyweight crown. (They never fought officialy, but unofflciallv they did-in the training ring and Dempsey did so badly that when Promoter Charley Murray tried to match them, Jack Kearns, Demp-sey's manager, said, "No, thanks. We want no traffic with that Seven-Year Itch.")

Seems clear to me.

[Mars_ax]

This article puts a new spin on Dempsey's invincible aura. It posits that he avoided fighting Harry Greb for years. What do you think?

Greb was a high risk, low reward fight for Dempsey, so if he did indeed avoid him, that might be the reason. BTW, i've read just about every bio written about Dempsey, and other then Greb's death and being a good friend, I don't recall any other mention of him.

[brocktonblockbust]

Greb woulda gave Dempsey one fuckin helluva fight worse than Conn gave Louis

[Rantcatrat]

This article puts a new spin on Dempsey's invincible aura. It posits that he avoided fighting Harry Greb for years. What do you think?

Greb was a high risk, low reward fight for Dempsey, so if he did indeed avoid him, that might be the reason. BTW, i've read just about every bio written about Dempsey, and other then Greb's death and being a good friend, I don't recall any other mention of him.

I recommend a great book that I'm reading right now by Jack Cavanaugh, "Boxing's Brainiest Champ and His Upset of the Great Jack Dempsey," that more or less confirms what the article I cited above asserts. I highly recommend the book if you have interest in Gene Tunney, Jack Dempsey and that era in boxing. Among others, there are chapters on Battling Levinsky and Luis Firpo. Good quality of writing too.

By the way, what is your favorite biography on Jack Dempsey? I'm leaning toward buying the lone biography on Joe Gans, or perhaps one on Sam Langford next, but one on Dempsey won't be far behind on my reading list.

[Rantcatrat]

Greb woulda gave Dempsey one fuckin helluva fight worse than Conn gave Louis

I still can't get over that Conn outboxed Louis for 12 rounds or so. It's like his concentration lapsed for 10 seconds and he blew a chance at a history-making victory. Frankly, it's a blight on Louis's record that a middleweight could do that to him. Conn was no average middleweight clearly. Still though.

[Mars_ax]

This article puts a new spin on Dempsey's invincible aura. It posits that he avoided fighting Harry Greb for years. What do you think?

Greb was a high risk, low reward fight for Dempsey, so if he did indeed avoid him, that might be the reason. BTW, i've read just about every bio written about Dempsey, and other then Greb's death and being a good friend, I don't recall any other mention of him.

I recommend a great book that I'm reading right now by Jack Cavanaugh, "Boxing's Brainiest Champ and His Upset of the Great Jack Dempsey," that more or less confirms what the article I cited above asserts. I highly recommend the book if you have interest in Gene Tunney, Jack Dempsey and that era in boxing. Among others, there are chapters on Battling Levinsky and Luis Firpo. Good quality of writing too.

By the way, what is your favorite biography on Jack Dempsey? I'm leaning toward buying the lone biography on Joe Gans, or perhaps one on Sam Langford next, but one on Dempsey won't be far behind on my reading list.

I like all his Bios, you can usually find one or 2 at the local library, the last one I read was one written in 1977, in collaboration with his daughter Barbara Lynn, Jack published his autobiography, titled "Dempsey".
Dempsey was one of a kind, in May 1983, he died of heart failure at age 87. With his wife Deanna at his side, his last words were ... "Don't worry honey; I'm too mean to die." Good stuff, after all the wars and trauma he'd been though in his life, to die 3 years short of 90 is amazing. RIP Manassa Mauler.

BTW, Dempsey's step-son through his marriage to Deanna posted on another forum I used to belong to, nice guy it was fun chatting with him.

[Mars_ax]

Jack Dempsey's obit in the N.Y. Times:

Jack Dempsey, 87, is Dead; Boxing Champion of 1920's

[Mars_ax]

Greb woulda gave Dempsey one fuckin helluva fight worse than Conn gave Louis

I still can't get over that Conn outboxed Louis for 12 rounds or so. It's like his concentration lapsed for 10 seconds and he blew a chance at a history-making victory. Frankly, it's a blight on Louis's record that a middleweight could do that to him. Conn was no average middleweight clearly. Still though.

I always like what Billy said after the fight: "What's the point of being Irish if you can't be stupid?".
Funny stuff..