I miss Tyson

[Bobthepen]

What the hell are you talking about?

Don King tried to get the fight overturned right away, arguing that the ref gave Douglas a long count.

Tyson was getting beat up by the likes of Trevor Berbick before the fight in sparring:

Back In Action - Orlando Sentinel

Tyson's diet of nothing but soup and salad

Private Training - Orlando Sentinel

All of this stuff was reported the time period surrounding the fight, not "decades later."

Do you really think that Buster Douglas at his best, which was this fight, could really beat Mike Tyson at his best? Tyson goofed and embarrassed himself. Yeah he lost but the fact remains that it wasn't the best Tyson we saw that night ... he looked completely lethargic from the opening bell and was getting hit with punches that he would never get hit with. He wasn't moving his head and his combinations were non existent. He got in one uppercut to save himself, which was a hell of a punch, and Douglas got up and was saved by the bell.

Soup doesn't give you a hangover. Nor does salad. Posting links to Tyson having early nights, training in the small hours, and sparring hardly refutes theories he wasn't in shape.

Post proof of the hangover you claim Tyson was suffering from.

For what it is worth, I accept that Tyson wasn't at his best, and Douglas fought the fight of his life. For this reason I rate Tyson higher than Douglas, but all of this is beside the point.

My point is that Tyson, like Wlad, ruled a weak era. He never looked good against a fighter with a hard jab and decent footwork (Holmes was rusty as hell, and Bruno had some success with the jab but should have doubled it up and followed through instead of stepping back).
The Tyson era was followed by three standouts rising from the ashes of the division. Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe. These three were a cut above anybody Tyson beat, and all three possessed the jab and ability to beat Mike at any stage of his career.
Styles make fights, and they had Tyson's number like Douglas. Were I to list the best fighters Tyson fought at the time he fought them and I would list Holyfield, Douglas and Lewis. I accept he was shot against Lewis.

Where do you rank a prime, GTI Tyson with a go faster stripe in the pantheon of greats?

[TysonBomb]

Tyson's era was full of Ali wannabees who all tried to jab him. Pinklon Thomas had an excellent jab, so did Tony Tucker and even at an advanced age, Holmes had an excellent jab on par with anyone in the division.

Frank Bruno, whom you mentioned had a very potent jab. But he's weak when he fights Tyson but a great fighter when he nearly pounds Lewis out of consciousness. Amazing logic. Half of Lewis's resume is full of Tyson leftovers yet Lewis has a great resume.

Tyson's era was better than the current era and slightly less talented than the 90s overall. In other words, it was actually a good era and he cleaned it out. The previous era dominated by Larry Holmes was even worst and the first time he fought a real elite level fighter in Mike Tyson, he was embarrassed and got his clock cleaned.

You have nothing to say. Tyson would demolish this era overnight and reign for over a decade. Tyson would've dominated the 90s even after the loss to Douglas if he hand't gone to prison. Glass jaw Lewis who couldn't even handle Tyson's sparring partner would've been steamrolled and broken to bits. Holyfield would've been brutally KOed and Bowe, if he fought Mike, would've also been KOed. Tyson is the elite of the elite and would be able to rule any era under the right guidance and with the right discipline and focus. The 90s weren't really dominated by a single fighter but that era would have if Tyson hadn't gone to prison.

[Master]

Bob you make some valid points I was worried that Tyson was imploding with the problems with Robin Givens during the Spinks and Bruno fights. Tyson was burning out and losing control. By the time Lennox, Bowe and Holyfield came he would probably have fought life and death with them but loses. No way would he have beaten them one after the other. My point is a peak Tyson with Rooney and stable lifestyle he could have lasted longer.

The way I see it he would have beaten Holyfield the first time they were due to fight in an epic war but probably lost the return and the one after that. If he did manage to beat Holyfield he would have definitely struggled with Bowe and Lewis. Saying all that Tyson could punch and a right cross against Lewis and a left hook to Bowe may have finished both early.

[TysonBomb]

Bob you make some valid points I was worried that Tyson was imploding with the problems with Robin Givens during the Spinks and Bruno fights. Tyson was burning out and losing control. By the time Lennox, Bowe and Holyfield came he would probably have fought life and death with them but loses. No way would he have beaten them one after the other. My point is a peak Tyson with Rooney and stable lifestyle he could have lasted longer.

The way I see it he would have beaten Holyfield the first time they were due to fight in an epic war but probably lost the return and the one after that. If he did manage to beat Holyfield he would have definitely struggled with Bowe and Lewis. Saying all that Tyson could punch and a right cross against Lewis and a left hook to Bowe may have finished both early.

Holyfield wasn't using PEDs chronically at the time so he wouldn't have lasted. He was stopped by Bowe and hurt by big punchers like Bert Cooper and Foreman. Lewis was glass and Bowe would've been destroyed by Tyson's body assault, if he fought Tyson that is. I'm pretty sure that they actually agreed not to fight each other because they were from the same area.

[Bobthepen]

Tyson's era was full of Ali wannabees who all tried to jab him. Pinklon Thomas had an excellent jab, so did Tony Tucker and even at an advanced age, Holmes had an excellent jab on par with anyone in the division.

Frank Bruno, whom you mentioned had a very potent jab. But he's weak when he fights Tyson but a great fighter when he nearly pounds Lewis out of consciousness. Amazing logic. Half of Lewis's resume is full of Tyson leftovers yet Lewis has a great resume.

Tyson's era was better than the current era and slightly less talented than the 90s overall. In other words, it was actually a good era and he cleaned it out. The previous era dominated by Larry Holmes was even worst and the first time he fought a real elite level fighter in Mike Tyson, he was embarrassed and got his clock cleaned.

You have nothing to say. Tyson would demolish this era overnight and reign for over a decade. Tyson would've dominated the 90s even after the loss to Douglas if he hand't gone to prison. Glass jaw Lewis who couldn't even handle Tyson's sparring partner would've been steamrolled and broken to bits. Holyfield would've been brutally KOed and Bowe, if he fought Mike, would've also been KOed. Tyson is the elite of the elite and would be able to rule any era under the right guidance and with the right discipline and focus. The 90s weren't really dominated by a single fighter but that era would have if Tyson hadn't gone to prison.

So where do you rank Tyson in the all time lists? And why is it that nobody in the sane world agrees with you?
Ring magazine compiled a list of the best fighters of the last 80 years, based on decades of boxing knowledge from their scribes. Lewis was at number 53, Evander Holyfield was at 22. Where was Tyson? number one, two perhaps? Nope at 72. Guess them folks at Ring are as clueless as I am.

Tucker had an excellent jab? Tucker was always chided for the fact he had a lazy jab for a big man, and dropped his left after throwing it.

Any other revisions of history to throw in there? Still waiting for the evidence of Mike's hangover...

[TysonBomb]

You're trying to rewrite history

Tucker had a good jab and if he isn't good enough for you then what about Tyrell Biggs? He had an excellent jab as well and literally tried to pull an Ali on Tyson. Lewis also had a LAZY jab that he would leave out there but I can guarantee you'd call it an excellent jab.

Everyone tried to jab Tyson but it failed. Being tall didn't help either so I'll already put aside that argument. The only punch that Tyson was susceptible to was the uppercut. He was a defensive wizard among heavyweights.

If you are resulting to using Ring magazine as an authority then there is nothing left for you to bring up. Ring magazine is a joke and so are all of these subjective lists compiled by these so called "pundits." You've already exposed that you actually don't know anything and you've hardly even watched any of Tysons fights.

He would eat Lewis alive, spark Holyfield and pound Bowe if these fights ever happened in the early 90s. Holyfield is "great" because he beat Bowe and Bowe is "great" because he beat Holyfield. Lewis is "great" because he fought Tyson left overs and was knocked unconscious in his prime ... TWICE.

Tyson beat a prime Razor Ruddock twice who was more dangerous than anyone Bowe or Holyfield fought to that point. Both Holyfield and Bowe DUCKED Ruddock and took on lesser opponents ... Holyfield took on a fat old Foreman who didn't deserve a shot and Bowe fought another bum in the long list of bums that make up his record. Lewis got to Ruddock after he had been destroyed by Tyson. Tyson was a class above all 3 of these guys and was the best heavyweight on the planet.

[Bobthepen]

If you are resulting to using Ring magazine as an authority then there is nothing left for you to bring up. Ring magazine is a joke and so are all of these subjective lists compiled by these so called "pundits."

OK, I'll use ESPN, who have Tyson at number 50 p4p. Or Bert Sugar, who had Tyson at 15 on the all time heavies list, or the IB times, who didn't have him in their top ten, or Sports illustrated, who didn't have him in their top ten, or almost any respected sports journal that don't have him in their top ten.

He only lives there in the wet dreams of a youth such as yourself.

Costa Rica's national coach cast his vote into FIFA's world player of the year a decade or so ago, and voted for Paolo Wanchope. The lone voice of a mad man in the wilderness does not a fact make.

You still avoid stating where you have Mike in your overall ratings.

[TysonBomb]

Your appeal to authority bullshit is exactly that ... BULLSHIT

I don't give a rats ass about Bert Sugar and his ramblings. Nor do I care about any Ring magazine list or any list from anyone because its all purely SUBJECTIVE

Everyone has biases, opinions, different criteria, beliefs etc. Each on one these lists DIFFER from another so your at straws by citing them.

The fact that you keep bringing these garbage lists up is incredibly foolish and childish.

I've exposed every single one of your posts and the inaccuracies and falsehoods that comprise their content.

[ross]

Mike Tyson on all time lists can be rated for a few different things. Some say its down to career achievements but then why would Foreman be rated higher? He only made 2 successful defences. If its impact on the sport then only Ali rates higher and Mikes impact was all positive until he ran in to King, he was spokesperson for the FBI, the New York police dept, he had his own computer game, he advertised pepsi etc whereas Ali gained his by refusing to be drafted to Vietnam.

If its on an actual who beats who then no way could you have the likes of Marciano who was getting dropped by old light heavies or Frazier, Norton, Holmes and probably a fair few more ahead of Mike. Mike gets rated down because its not cool to have him high or you just look like you know nothing about boxing because "Mike Tyson was just a bully brawler with no technique" which is the usual crap spouted by wannabe experts.

[Bobthepen]

Your appeal to authority bullshit is exactly that ... BULLSHIT

I don't give a rats ass about Bert Sugar and his ramblings. Nor do I care about any Ring magazine list or any list from anyone because its all purely SUBJECTIVE

Everyone has biases, opinions, different criteria, beliefs etc. Each on one these lists DIFFER from another so your at straws by citing them.

The fact that you keep bringing these garbage lists up is incredibly foolish and childish.

I've exposed every single one of your posts and the inaccuracies and falsehoods that comprise their content.

Ah yes. Speaking of falsehoods, where is the evidence of Mike's soup hangover?



And where do you rank Tyson, for the fourth or fifth time.

[Beanz]

People are judged on their career. Just because Tyson had a period after what people consider his prime where he underachieved, that does not mean he should be given credit for what could theoretically have happened. He was not an old man when he finished fighting, he was not wracked and ruined by serious injuries. At his height he was a fighting machine who lit up boxing but he could be beaten and people who on the one hand will acknowledge that Klitschko opponents are often already beaten men before entering the ring, frozen by fear like rabbits in headlights, refuse to see the same tell tale symptoms in many of Iron Mike's victims.

[ross]

People are judged on their career. Just because Tyson had a period after what people consider his prime where he underachieved, that does not mean he should be given credit for what could theoretically have happened. He was not an old man when he finished fighting, he was not wracked and ruined by serious injuries. At his height he was a fighting machine who lit up boxing but he could be beaten and people who on the one hand will acknowledge that Klitschko opponents are often already beaten men before entering the ring, frozen by fear like rabbits in headlights, refuse to see the same tell tale symptoms in many of Iron Mike's victims.

No, just give him credit for what he did acheive up to and including Spinks which is more impressive than what Marciano achieved. Tyson fought and beat the top ten heavies of his era, there was no ther challengers for him. If he hadnt declined so rapidly Kevin Rooney said his management team were actually thinking of retiring Mike early and bringing him back after a few years when some credible challenggers had come through. If Mike had been more disciplined and not been so easily swayed by King, he may have become the greatest ever at heavy, coming back to ruin Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, all who were getting beat, dropped or hurt every other fight.