Prime Mike Tyson in this era

[Fenster]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Wlad could spoil, and get slaughtered on the cards, but I highly doubt his definte NOT rock solid chin would have got him the distance.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Wlad could spoil, and get slaughtered on the cards, but I highly doubt his definte NOT rock solid chin would have got him the distance.

Tucker fought Tyson only 2 months after winning the title. Catastrophic shortage of time needed to prepare for Tyson that! Even then he had him reeling in the first! I don't think Wlad's chin is as bad as people make out either, it had more to do with conditioning and a leaky defense IMO. Haye and Wach landed flush.


"When Mike started fighting those big guys – and I always keep going back to the size factor. He still was a little guy. He could neutralize his size handicap with speed. His speed was so effective that the big guys were often clumsy uncoordinated who were bigger than him, until he fought those big guys who had skills and were not afraid of him.
But the big guys who were not super skillful, he would neutralize the size disadvantage with tremendous speed, footwork, head movement, and punching from short angles with all different types of punches...

To me Mike Tyson is one of the fighters I respect so much for what he did for being a small man, because he was still a small heavyweight. The biggest thing he had was his speed and intensity over a lot of big guys, when they were not prepared or well enough coordinated to deal with that.But the big guys who were not afraid of Mike and had any boxing skills, he had a problem with because Mike was a little guy…

Mike had problems with big guys! He was still a small guy that was really almost like a cruiserweight, and those big guys who were not afraid of him, all of them he struggled with… So it’s just the case where Mike was a phenomenal fighter, but with the big guys size still matters. You’re going to fight a guy (like Lennox Lewis) who’s 240-250, with skills, solid amateur background, went through 2 Olympics—no, I don’t think he could have done anything.

Evander Holyfield by the same token was just physically too small and Evander always had problems with jabs. I mean I trained him, and I had him sparring with guys who had good jabs, which is something he did have problems with."

Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer

[Fenster]

Nice quote - Steward was talking about Lewis though not Wlad.

"I'm one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans, he's given me so many thrills, he is the most exciting heavyweight in the last 50 years" - Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer, 2002

When Wach hit Wlad he almost did that thing he did against Peter - run around the ring looking for places to dive on the floor.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Nice quote - Steward was talking about Lewis though not Wlad.

"I'm one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans, he's given me so many thrills, he is the most exciting heavyweight in the last 50 years" - Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer, 2002

When Wach hit Wlad he almost did that thing he did against Peter - run around the ring looking for places to dive on the floor.

He was talking about Mike Tyson actually.

"But he also fought guys who were scared to death of him. When he faced a guy who wasn't afraid, he had problems like he did with Mitch Green, Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith and Quick Tillis. Mike WAS in his prime when he fought them and they weren't legendary names either… they just weren't afraid of him."

(Emmanuel Steward, HOF trainer)

[Fenster]

Nice quote - Steward was talking about Lewis though not Wlad.

"I'm one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans, he's given me so many thrills, he is the most exciting heavyweight in the last 50 years" - Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer, 2002

When Wach hit Wlad he almost did that thing he did against Peter - run around the ring looking for places to dive on the floor.

He was talking about Mike Tyson actually.

"But he also fought guys who were scared to death of him. When he faced a guy who wasn't afraid, he had problems like he did with Mitch Green, Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith and Quick Tillis. Mike WAS in his prime when he fought them and they weren't legendary names either… they just weren't afraid of him."

(Emmanuel Steward, HOF trainer)

He was talking about Tyson in relation to Lewis. And the size advantage Tyson has suffered from, right?

Steward makes a far more significant point in that 2nd quote - "guys that weren't afraid of Tyson" - it's hard to see Wlad, who was diving all over the shop to get away from Sam Plodder Peter, wouldn't have froze against Tyson's onslaught?

[Master]

The world would be so excited and in particular the US.

[Beanz]

Price would muller him. Price could Knock out Zeus.

[DavilaJones]

Nice quote - Steward was talking about Lewis though not Wlad.

"I'm one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans, he's given me so many thrills, he is the most exciting heavyweight in the last 50 years" - Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer, 2002

When Wach hit Wlad he almost did that thing he did against Peter - run around the ring looking for places to dive on the floor.

He was talking about Mike Tyson actually.

"But he also fought guys who were scared to death of him. When he faced a guy who wasn't afraid, he had problems like he did with Mitch Green, Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith and Quick Tillis. Mike WAS in his prime when he fought them and they weren't legendary names either… they just weren't afraid of him."

(Emmanuel Steward, HOF trainer)

He was talking about Tyson in relation to Lewis. And the size advantage Tyson has suffered from, right?

Steward makes a far more significant point in that 2nd quote - "guys that weren't afraid of Tyson" - it's hard to see Wlad, who was diving all over the shop to get away from Sam Plodder Peter, wouldn't have froze against Tyson's onslaught?

Have you ever seen him afraid? Mind you I'm not saying he's not a cautious guy but have you ever seen Wlad afraid? Also if a boxer is hurt it is a damn good strategy to hold on to clear your head. I recall Ismayl Sillakh being far ahead on points last year on FNF just to get a TKO loss because the fool didn't clinch.

[Fenster]

I'm not calling Wlad a coward or anything, but he does get flustered when he's put under pressure, there are numerous examples of this throughout his entire career, from his knockout losses, to jumping on the floor to stop Sam Peter getting close to him and even in his last fight against Wach.

Wlad's composure and confidence has been knocked out of shape by far lesser violent explosive fighters than Tyson. That's all i'm saying.

[TitoFan]

I don't think Wlad's chin is as bad as people make out either, it had more to do with conditioning and a leaky defense IMO. Haye and Wach landed flush.

Haye landed flush?? Haye was charitably credited for 36 power punches landed throughout the whole fight.... 3 per round!! I'm thinking some must've been counted twice. No way Haye connected that much. And "flush" is the operative word here. I suffered through watching the damn fight and didn't see a single flush shot on Wlad's chin. None.

Please refrain from using the Haye fight as a measure of Wlad's chin.

[Beanflicker]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Well, I mean besides Tyson who did Green fight that you'd expect to stop him? He only ever really fought Tyson and Berbick.

And what about James Tillis? Stopped 11 times in his career (3 times before Tyson including a 1-round beating from Tim Witherspoon).

Bonecrusher was stopped 7 times, twice before the Tyson fight including one to Larry Holmes, who hardly fits the discription of a KO artist. Then starched by Ruddock 2 years later.

And of course we can mention Razor, gave Mike fits (the first fight was a terrible early stoppage) and shortly after their fights he was DESTROYED by Lewis and taken out by The Duke of all people.

[Fenster]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Well, I mean besides Tyson who did Green fight that you'd expect to stop him? He only ever really fought Tyson and Berbick.

And what about James Tillis? Stopped 11 times in his career (3 times before Tyson including a 1-round beating from Tim Witherspoon).

Bonecrusher was stopped 7 times, twice before the Tyson fight including one to Larry Holmes, who hardly fits the discription of a KO artist. Then starched by Ruddock 2 years later.

And of course we can mention Razor, gave Mike fits (the first fight was a terrible early stoppage) and shortly after their fights he was DESTROYED by Lewis and taken out by The Duke of all people.

Just like you said -

2. Bringing up the Sanders fight is rediculous because, as anyone can plainly see, that was 10 years ago and Wlad has improved 10-fold since then. You have to compare best at best.

If you want to paint a picture of Tyson struggling with guys of a particular stature, you have to accept Wlad has stuggled when his head got cracked by fast handed punchers (well even slow handed plodders have knocked him down. Lets be honest). Best at best?