If Tyson and Holyfield fought today...

[TysonBomb]

I'm not trying to absolve Tyson or anything but what I stated was fact.

The heabutts "won" him those fights ... and they were all INTENTIONAL ... and the second time Mike wasn't going to take it and went nuts

[tysonesque]

I'm not trying to absolve Tyson or anything but what I stated was fact.

The heabutts "won" him those fights ... and they were all INTENTIONAL ... and the second time Mike wasn't going to take it and went nuts

It wasn't the headbutts that won Holyfield the fights, it was his heart and the fact that he stood up to Mike. Tyson was so used to blowing guys away and he expected Holyfield to go the same way, but he didn't. Holyfield shocked him and Mike just didn't have it in him to respond because he wasn't the same fighter he once was.

By the time Tyson fought Holyfield he was a spent force trading on his past reputation. The post prison Tyson was probably only 60% or 70% of the 1980s Tyson and it wasn't enough to beat the top guys.

He bit Evander's ear because he was frustrated and losing the fight. Sure, the headbutts pissed him off, but Mike was being butted in the first fight and didn't react like that. He didn't just bite his ear once, he did it twice and then deliberately ran over and shoved Holyfield across the ring when his back was turned because he wanted to be disqualified. He knew what he was doing.

Prime Tyson probably would have beaten Holyfield, but by the time they did fight, Holyfield was the better fighter and that's why he won.

Tyson at his peak was unbelievably good and destroyed some very good fighters. He even as good as ended several fighters' careers, but his peak was brief and I have never seen a fighter deteriorate as quickly as Mike did. The Tyson who fought Bruno first time around was almost unrecognisable from the Tyson who obliterated Spinks only a year earlier.

Cast your mind back to when Tyson was undefeated and undisputed champion blowing people away. Even then, anyone involved in boxing who knew anything about Tyson said he would self destruct and that's exactly what he did. Prime Tyson was as good as he was because he lived in the gym and fought incredibly regularly. He was managed and handled that way because if they let him off the leash he would get into trouble and go off the rails. Under Rooney and the guys from the Cus era he was a dedicated professional and it's no coincidence that his career and life turned to shit once he got rid of them and hooked up with King.

Kevin Rooney wasn't some all time great trainer, he was a trainer who knew Mike inside out and knew how to get the best out of him. They were just right for each other and it was a marriage made in heaven. When it ended, neither of them achieved anything like what they had achieved together ever again.

After the loss to Douglas, everyone was watching and waiting for Mike to rediscover his best form, the head movement and incredible defence, the combination punching and timing etc, but it never happened.

This is a very long winded way of saying that, as great as Tyson was in his prime, his prime was pretty damn short and Tyson lost to Holyfield because he was the better fighter at that time.

[brocktonblockbust]

Tony Tucker set the blueprint 10 years earlier by I thought beating Tyson using backward movement, counter punching and holding excessively. Holyfield musta seen that fight 10 times before he fought Mike in 96.

[Mr140]

Tysonbomb nothing you say is fact just you are a fan of Tyson and that is all. The fact is Holyfeild beat his ass and was older and been through more wars. He was also having health issue but unlike Tyson Holyfeild was mental tough.

[TysonBomb]

Tysonbomb nothing you say is fact just you are a fan of Tyson and that is all. The fact is Holyfeild beat his ass and was older and been through more wars. He was also having health issue but unlike Tyson Holyfeild was mental tough.

He was over hydrated and was sick from excessive use of HGH when he fought Moorer.

He had hepatitis when fighting Bowe from eating tainted food.

Those were his health issues.

[AdamGB]

Philosopher is wrong.

I'm shocked!!!

[brocktonblockbust]

Philosopher is wrong.

I'm shocked!!!

I should have been too

Philosopher is ALWAYS wrong. (now that's better mate)