Why is crime so high in England?

[VictorCharlie]

Stats are pliable but I've seen reports where the UK's violent crime per capita exceeds ours.

"...the Home Office dismissed the statistics as "absolute nonsense", saying that the average American is seven times more likely to be murdered than their British counterpart and 60 times more likely to be shot"

BBC News | UK | UK crime worse, says US report.

NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States

You could draw a lot of different conclusions from that link. Like I said..."Pliable". Lets be honest though, what did you expect the Home Office to say? "Yeah we got a real shit hole over here." Worse, better, the same; regardless, the UK does seem to have a problem with violent crime worse better and the same as places in the US.

And you can argue in favor of gun rights in the U.S. without affecting your credibility, because that's all it is, your opinion. However, when you begin trying to play semantics with statistics to prove that violent crime in the UK is somehow comparable with violent crime in the U.S., well............

What are you talking about Tito?

[El Kabong]

What are you talking about Tito?

Does it really matter? Like he's going to even attempt to make sense

[TitoFan]

What are you talking about Tito?

Does it really matter? Like he's going to even attempt to make sense

I thought I was pretty clear.

[VictorCharlie]

What are you talking about Tito?

Does it really matter? Like he's going to even attempt to make sense

I thought I was pretty clear.

Thought wrong. I'm not sure what you mean regarding my credibility or arguing semantics. Green stated I didn't know what I was talking about which I don't really deny in most things UK. My point was strictly using the link I provided which was the first one that populated when I did a google search for a comparison. Its not like I linked the NRA news.

[TitoFan]

What are you talking about Tito?

Does it really matter? Like he's going to even attempt to make sense

I thought I was pretty clear.

Thought wrong. I'm not sure what you mean regarding my credibility or arguing semantics. Green stated I didn't know what I was talking about which I don't really deny in most things UK. My point was strictly using the link I provided which was the first one that populated when I did a google search for a comparison. Its not like I linked the NRA news.

Stats say you're 60 times more likely to get shot in the U.S. than in the UK. End of story. No amount of links, partial statistics, twisted logic, semantics, or otherwise can change that fact. And it's no big deal. Yes... there's way more guns in the U.S., so that is to be expected. Yes... gun violence is way more prevalent in the U.S. It's a non-argument, is all I'm saying. You can look at it right side up, upside down, whichever way you choose. Facts are facts and other than that they don't mean a damn thing.

[El Kabong]

Stats say you're 60 times more likely to get shot in the U.S. than in the UK. End of story. No amount of links, partial statistics, twisted logic, semantics, or otherwise can change that fact. And it's no big deal. Yes... there's way more guns in the U.S., so that is to be expected. Yes... gun violence is way more prevalent in the U.S. It's a non-argument, is all I'm saying. You can look at it right side up, upside down, whichever way you choose. Facts are facts and other than that they don't mean a damn thing.

OK, if guns are so illegal/highly regulated in England then why are people still getting shot Tito? And since there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the US and all those guns are deadly and owned by rabid foaming at the mouth nutjobs why is it only 60 times more likely? 60 seems a bit low when you consider how many guns are in the US & how many are in England.

[TitoFan]

Stats say you're 60 times more likely to get shot in the U.S. than in the UK. End of story. No amount of links, partial statistics, twisted logic, semantics, or otherwise can change that fact. And it's no big deal. Yes... there's way more guns in the U.S., so that is to be expected. Yes... gun violence is way more prevalent in the U.S. It's a non-argument, is all I'm saying. You can look at it right side up, upside down, whichever way you choose. Facts are facts and other than that they don't mean a damn thing.

OK, if guns are so illegal/highly regulated in England then why are people still getting shot Tito? And since there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the US and all those guns are deadly and owned by rabid foaming at the mouth nutjobs why is it only 60 times more likely? 60 seems a bit low when you consider how many guns are in the US & how many are in England.

What would you consider more logical numbers? 1000 times more likely? Would that jive with the number of guns in the U.S. versus in England? I don't know, Lyle. All I know is that it's considerable less likely to get shot in England than in the U.S. Nothing more, nothing less. Is this a pretty solid statement given the vast number of guns in the U.S.? Absolutely. What does this mean in the grand scheme of things? I don't know Lyle. Only that it's significantly less likely to get shot in England than in the U.S.

Apparently the incidence of violent crime (not just guns) is higher per capita in the UK than in the U.S., if I'm understanding the reports correctly. Maybe when you factor that in, it would tend to push the "being shot" probability higher than it normally would, but still less than in the U.S. Make sense?

[Andre]

Stats say you're 60 times more likely to get shot in the U.S. than in the UK. End of story. No amount of links, partial statistics, twisted logic, semantics, or otherwise can change that fact. And it's no big deal. Yes... there's way more guns in the U.S., so that is to be expected. Yes... gun violence is way more prevalent in the U.S. It's a non-argument, is all I'm saying. You can look at it right side up, upside down, whichever way you choose. Facts are facts and other than that they don't mean a damn thing.

OK, if guns are so illegal/highly regulated in England then why are people still getting shot Tito? And since there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the US and all those guns are deadly and owned by rabid foaming at the mouth nutjobs why is it only 60 times more likely? 60 seems a bit low when you consider how many guns are in the US & how many are in England.

I think to disarm everyone is as stupid as the reverse philosophy in arming everyone.

If you disarm do you really think all the criminals will hand their guns in too all the bikers all the gangs,the mob and all of the all of hundred of thousand runners these assholes use too?

If you do think it will help I think you are two sandwiches short of a picnic and I want you to tell me how can it will work on a broad scale?

Logically that leaves us with more stringent testing on who owns one and steeper laws in regards to security of the firearm and if it falls into someone elses hands (a family member etc) or you sell it on illegally and its used illegally you should answer for their crime right along side them.

Out here if you have a firearm it is in a gun safe unless you are heading for the range if the cops come around and ask your misses to inspect your guns EG while you are at work and she go finds the keys to the safe you lose everything, gun license the whole lot. Its you only and no one else gets to them ever, no spare keys lying around nothing.

[VictorCharlie]

What are you talking about Tito?

Does it really matter? Like he's going to even attempt to make sense

I thought I was pretty clear.

Thought wrong. I'm not sure what you mean regarding my credibility or arguing semantics. Green stated I didn't know what I was talking about which I don't really deny in most things UK. My point was strictly using the link I provided which was the first one that populated when I did a google search for a comparison. Its not like I linked the NRA news.

Stats say you're 60 times more likely to get shot in the U.S. than in the UK. End of story. No amount of links, partial statistics, twisted logic, semantics, or otherwise can change that fact. And it's no big deal. Yes... there's way more guns in the U.S., so that is to be expected. Yes... gun violence is way more prevalent in the U.S. It's a non-argument, is all I'm saying. You can look at it right side up, upside down, whichever way you choose. Facts are facts and other than that they don't mean a damn thing.

I'm not really denying any of that. I wasn't nor was the OP talking about gun crime, but rather violent crime in the UK which statistics say is higher per capita than in the US.

[TitoFan]

What are you talking about Tito?

Does it really matter? Like he's going to even attempt to make sense

I thought I was pretty clear.

Thought wrong. I'm not sure what you mean regarding my credibility or arguing semantics. Green stated I didn't know what I was talking about which I don't really deny in most things UK. My point was strictly using the link I provided which was the first one that populated when I did a google search for a comparison. Its not like I linked the NRA news.

Stats say you're 60 times more likely to get shot in the U.S. than in the UK. End of story. No amount of links, partial statistics, twisted logic, semantics, or otherwise can change that fact. And it's no big deal. Yes... there's way more guns in the U.S., so that is to be expected. Yes... gun violence is way more prevalent in the U.S. It's a non-argument, is all I'm saying. You can look at it right side up, upside down, whichever way you choose. Facts are facts and other than that they don't mean a damn thing.

I'm not really denying any of that. I wasn't nor was the OP talking about gun crime, but rather violent crime in the UK which statistics say is higher per capita than in the US.

Ok... violent crime meaning rapes, assaults, knifings, etc. Well, if that's the true statistic, then it would point toward another, sociological problem in the UK as compared to the U.S. It would be interesting to know the theories about why these stats.

[Beanz]

Violent Crime has been declining in the UK since the mid 90's.

The US Murder rate is 4 times higher than the UK's.

The US definition of Violent Crime = Murder and Non Negligent Manslaughter, Forcible Rape , Robbery and aggravated assault.

The UK Home Office definition of Violent Crime is ALL crimes against the person. ALL robberies, assaults and sexual offences.

I apologise if I came across as rude but UK crime statistics are significantly lower than people would have you believe. The opposition party will use the same statistics to prove the inadequacy of the Government in power, when it comes to law and order, that they will then present differently to prove how efficient they are when they are in Government. International Politics is no different.

Dia is right in pointing out how the few can tar the image of many. Knife crime is definitely more prevalent today than in my youth, when using a knife would be seen as cowardly even among the local gangs and hooligans. If you had a rumble in the past even between different crews, guns were virtually unheard of and blades were for the odd nutter, not widespread like today.

[TitoFan]

Violent Crime has been declining in the UK since the mid 90's.

The US Murder rate is 4 times higher than the UK's.

The US definition of Violent Crime = Murder and Non Negligent Manslaughter, Forcible Rape , Robbery and aggravated assault.

The UK Home Office definition of Violent Crime is ALL crimes against the person. ALL robberies, assaults and sexual offences.

I apologise if I came across as rude but UK crime statistics are significantly lower than people would have you believe. The opposition party will use the same statistics to prove the inadequacy of the Government in power, when it comes to law and order, that they will then present differently to prove how efficient they are when they are in Government. International Politics is no different.

Dia is right in pointing out how the few can tar the image of many. Knife crime is definitely more prevalent today than in my youth, when using a knife would be seen as cowardly even among the local gangs and hooligans. If you had a rumble in the past even between different crews, guns were virtually unheard of and blades were for the odd nutter, not widespread like today.

Definition of "violent crime". That is the gold nugget here.
If there's a difference in definition, any comparison of rates is going to be invalid.

[VictorCharlie]

That link was strange in that it had an "assault victim" category and a "rape victim" category. In fairness I used victim of violent crime and victim of assault interchangeably when discussing the link.