Why is crime so high in England?

[El Kabong]

I think the reason why crime is so high in England is because it is devoid. The family unit is largely the key and that is something which is empty. We have families which either have no father or have two parents both in work and that is useless. There is no role model or no time to care for the kid and all the government cares about is increasing efficiency and that means importing people. The total result is something horrible. England is simply not a nice place to live and especially in an urban area.

Whatever could cause that?



WELFARE perhaps? I know it has obliterated the very idea of a two parent household in the African-American community in the US....but hey so what if the "War on Poverty" did more harm than good. the intentions were good & that's all that matters. Government CAN be everything to you...if you just submit to it . I'm quite sure England has suffered these results for similar reasons.

[Master]

I think the reason why crime is so high in England is because it is devoid. The family unit is largely the key and that is something which is empty. We have families which either have no father or have two parents both in work and that is useless. There is no role model or no time to care for the kid and all the government cares about is increasing efficiency and that means importing people. The total result is something horrible. England is simply not a nice place to live and especially in an urban area.

Whatever could cause that?



WELFARE perhaps? I know it has obliterated the very idea of a two parent household in the African-American community in the US....but hey so what if the "War on Poverty" did more harm than good. the intentions were good & that's all that matters. Government CAN be everything to you...if you just submit to it . I'm quite sure England has suffered these results for similar reasons.

Are you saying that it has only obliterated the Black community?

[El Kabong]

Are you saying that it has only obliterated the Black community?

The "War on Poverty" has done the most damage to that community

In 1963, 77% of black children were born to families with both a father and a mother. Today, nearly 70% of black children are born out of wedlock.

Children born into single parent homes are:
* More than twice as likely to be arrested for a juvenile crime

* Three times more likely to end up in jail by the time they reach age 30

* Twice as likely to be treated for emotional and behavioral problems

* Roughly twice as likely to be suspended or expelled from school

* A third more likely to drop out before completing high school

* Girls from single-parent homes are more than twice as likely to have a child without being married, thereby repeating the negative cycle for another generation.

* Children living in single parent homes are 50 percent more likely to experience poverty as adults when compared to children from intact married homes.

And WELFARE has caused that because the Government becomes the "Baby Daddy"

As Economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, the war on poverty has been able to accomplish what slavery, Jim Crow Laws, and other forms of discrimination has not: it has largely destroyed the black family. Roughly 40.2% of all prisoners in the United States are Black men so just allow that to sink in for a second.

[Master]

Are you saying that it has only obliterated the Black community?

The "War on Poverty" has done the most damage to that community

In 1963, 77% of black children were born to families with both a father and a mother. Today, nearly 70% of black children are born out of wedlock.

Children born into single parent homes are:
* More than twice as likely to be arrested for a juvenile crime

* Three times more likely to end up in jail by the time they reach age 30

* Twice as likely to be treated for emotional and behavioral problems

* Roughly twice as likely to be suspended or expelled from school

* A third more likely to drop out before completing high school

* Girls from single-parent homes are more than twice as likely to have a child without being married, thereby repeating the negative cycle for another generation.

* Children living in single parent homes are 50 percent more likely to experience poverty as adults when compared to children from intact married homes.

And WELFARE has caused that because the Government becomes the "Baby Daddy"

As Economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, the war on poverty has been able to accomplish what slavery, Jim Crow Laws, and other forms of discrimination has not: it has largely destroyed the black family. Roughly 40.2% of all prisoners in the United States are Black men so just allow that to sink in for a second.

So the cycle of poverty and racism has nothing to do with it but welfare system does.

[El Kabong]

Are you saying that it has only obliterated the Black community?

The "War on Poverty" has done the most damage to that community

In 1963, 77% of black children were born to families with both a father and a mother. Today, nearly 70% of black children are born out of wedlock.

Children born into single parent homes are:
* More than twice as likely to be arrested for a juvenile crime

* Three times more likely to end up in jail by the time they reach age 30

* Twice as likely to be treated for emotional and behavioral problems

* Roughly twice as likely to be suspended or expelled from school

* A third more likely to drop out before completing high school

* Girls from single-parent homes are more than twice as likely to have a child without being married, thereby repeating the negative cycle for another generation.

* Children living in single parent homes are 50 percent more likely to experience poverty as adults when compared to children from intact married homes.

And WELFARE has caused that because the Government becomes the "Baby Daddy"

As Economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, the war on poverty has been able to accomplish what slavery, Jim Crow Laws, and other forms of discrimination has not: it has largely destroyed the black family. Roughly 40.2% of all prisoners in the United States are Black men so just allow that to sink in for a second.

So the cycle of poverty and racism has nothing to do with it but welfare system does.

Master the "War on Poverty" spent $15 Trillion trying to end poverty and what has it accomplished? When it was declared the poverty rate was 19% and falling....after it was in effect the poverty rate never got below 10.5% and now it's at 15% and climbing. Government spends $20,610 for every poor person in America, or $61,830 per poor family of three...seeing how the poverty line for that family of three is just $18,530, we should have theoretically wiped out poverty in America many times over...but we haven't.

126 separate anti-poverty programs administered by seven different cabinet agencies and six independent agencies. Then there are the hordes of social workers and government employees who administer the various programs. All of these people have a vested interest in the programs’ continuation and expansion. As a result, anti-poverty programs are usually more concerned with protecting the prerogatives of the bureaucracy than with actually fighting poverty. (this part is an explination of Liberalism at it's finest)

Federal welfare spending has risen 375 percent (in constant 2011 dollars) since 1965. Total welfare spending has climbed almost as much: Governments are now disbursing $908 billion a year to alleviate poverty, up from $256 billion (also in constant dollars) in 1965.

But hey....good intentions mate, that's what counts

[TitoFan]

The welfare program as it is today is in dire need of a major overhaul. The current system pretty much encourages young girls to have children without the proper family structure, and without the proper education to obtain the level of job needed to care for a family. The welfare system is well-intentioned, but is being abused throughout urban America and its territories (including Puerto Rico). The way the system is designed, sometimes it is more advantageous for the recipient to go on welfare than getting a minimum wage job. He/she makes more money, without working. Where's the incentive to work? This problem transcends political parties and agendas. It is a long-running problem, which only stands to get worse. My fear is that this financial burden will continue to hurt the working middle class, and in many ways also affects the future Social Security benefits for those of us who work extremely hard to make a living.

[El Kabong]

The welfare program as it is today is in dire need of a major overhaul. The current system pretty much encourages young girls to have children without the proper family structure, and without the proper education to obtain the level of job needed to care for a family. The welfare system is well-intentioned, but is being abused throughout urban America and its territories (including Puerto Rico). The way the system is designed, sometimes it is more advantageous for the recipient to go on welfare than getting a minimum wage job. He/she makes more money, without working. Where's the incentive to work? This problem transcends political parties and agendas. It is a long-running problem, which only stands to get worse. My fear is that this financial burden will continue to hurt the working middle class, and in many ways also affects the future Social Security benefits for those of us who work extremely hard to make a living.

HOLY SHIT! ....I'm at a loss for words here. This might be one of your best posts ever

[TitoFan]

The welfare program as it is today is in dire need of a major overhaul. The current system pretty much encourages young girls to have children without the proper family structure, and without the proper education to obtain the level of job needed to care for a family. The welfare system is well-intentioned, but is being abused throughout urban America and its territories (including Puerto Rico). The way the system is designed, sometimes it is more advantageous for the recipient to go on welfare than getting a minimum wage job. He/she makes more money, without working. Where's the incentive to work? This problem transcends political parties and agendas. It is a long-running problem, which only stands to get worse. My fear is that this financial burden will continue to hurt the working middle class, and in many ways also affects the future Social Security benefits for those of us who work extremely hard to make a living.

HOLY SHIT! ....I'm at a loss for words here. This might be one of your best posts ever

LOL.... and no, I didn't fall out of bed on my head this morning. That's the way I've always felt. I'm definitely not a big fan of the welfare program. Political beliefs and likes/dislikes aside, I've always felt this is a pressing issue, one that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

[Beanz]

Whoa this thread has veered completely off course. The War on Poverty is not the same thing here as in the US. For many years the UK has led the way in trying to alleviate poverty in other countries and only recently begun to address the issue at home. Tony Blair was an insincere cheesy grinned Scottish charlatan masquerading as a genuine Labour party leader who ended up both running and ruining large parts of this country, but even he, or more accurately some bright sparks below him, managed to implement some polices that have gone on to improve the lot of working people in the UK.

The minimum wage and working tax credits have enabled many unemployed people to leave what the Americans call welfare, and we call the dole, and start working to support themselves and their families. I would like to call BULLSHIT on the idea that "welfare" is responsible for damaging the traditional family unit and that somehow the same is true over here in the UK. What the hell is "the Black community" ? Here in the UK where we have never had segregation and like most of the world mixed marriages have continued to erase the comfortable lines that are the last refuge of separatists and those with an agenda, I hope I am right in assuming that black and white people are not so unique that a government policy would affect them differently.


Liberalism is spat out across the pond by many like a dirty word, but here in the UK the connotations are vastly different. Even traditional boundaries of left and right wing politics are not the same.
The Opening Post


One of my American friends got off the train in London. A 3 guys jumped high and stole his laptop. He said crime was really high there. I was there in 1982 and had no problems at all. It seemed like a really nice place. What happen?
The first reply

Crime is against the law in England.... situations like you described shouldn't happen


Crime is not SO HIGH in England. It is in fact falling. The fear of crime is rising. I am finding it hard to believe the idea that London is so dangerous that you in any more likely to be in grave danger of being jumped and robbed as soon as you get off the train, than any other major capital city in the world. I go regularly with my disabled Mrs and the opposite has usually been true with people offering to help with luggage etc.


the reply


Crime is everywhere and nobody has tried to argue that it does not exist in England, but Gun Crime is much, much , much lower than somewhere like the US. It is an inarguable fact.

Most people would rather work than claim benefits. There are a lot of myths around benefits


The idea of families where generations have never worked

In households with two or more generations of working age, there were only 0.3 per cent where neither generation had ever worked. In a third of these, the member of the younger generation had been out of work for less than a year.


Couples are not better off splitting up

Research in 2009 for the Department for Work and Pensions looked at whether different benefit systems had any impact on people’s decisions about whether to stay together or not. They concluded that ‘on balance, the reviewed literature shows that there is no consistent and robust evidence to support claims that the welfare system has a significant impact upon family structure’.


Benefit fraud is high and going up

The claim that benefit fraud is increasing is similarly false. Because there have been changes in how fraud has been calculated over time, we have to look at combined fraud and ‘customer error’ for JSA and income support. This declined from 9.4 per cent to 4.8 per cent of spending from 1997/98 to 2004/05, and has since stayed roughly flat

[El Kabong]

You can call bullshit on it all you like but facts are facts and LBJ's "War on Poverty" & "The Great Society" have had the best of intentions with the worst results possible....but that actually helps the Democrats because the more people that are in poverty, the more people will vote for "Santa Claus" (someone who offers them, "free" stuff)

[TitoFan]

It is not the welfare program itself that is the culprit. That would be too simplistic a view. It is the way it is being administered. When the welfare program was first drawn up, it was meant for those people truly in need. Who by forces beyond their control, were unable to meet their financial obligations through wages earned. But like any government-instituted system, if badly administered it will be abused. And that's what we're having nowadays. It is being abused way beyond the original intent. We have perfectly healthy and capable people who would rather live off welfare than holding down a job. And the way the system is currently designed makes it rather attractive for some of those people to abuse the system. If the choice in front of you is: a) work at some minimum-wage job and barely make ends meet, or b) go on welfare... not work a day in your life... and make the same or more than by working... well guess what. A lot of people will choose "b". And that is abuse. It is up to the government, elected by the people, to fix and correctly administer this system before it further hurts the nation's economy, and just as critical..... before it continues to erode the work ethic of the nation's young population.

[El Kabong]

Here's the deal, many government bureaucracies were created to end poverty, however, if they actually ended poverty then that would be the end of those bureaucracies & the end of their funding ergo the people "in charge" of ending poverty are basically making certain poverty still exists. All these bureaucracies are doing is buying votes via entitlements....what the fuck do the bureaucrats care if they're wasting money, its keeping them employed in a cushy government job

[TitoFan]

That too.... job security. These programs lack the needed oversight to ensure the mission is being accomplished. They also lack the accountability you find in private industry. In private industry, you have goals and objectives, and you get the funds and other resources to do the job. If you don't, you've failed and you get to be held accountable. This should hold for all branches and offices of the government, including the welfare program.

[Beanz]

This thread is about crime in ENGLAND not the welfare system in America. In England Crime is not caused by welfare, a lot of it is caused by a minority of drug dependent individuals who rob to feed their habit, Working lads who think after 8 pints that they are the new Mike Tyson and need to prove it and young people without a job and nobody to look up to or guide them who fill there day being anti social twats.

[Beanz]

If you want to discuss welfare etc and it's impact on society you could do worse than heading on over to Dia bando's excellent http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...7-society.htmlthread and making your point there.