The Global Warming crowd is at war....with the poor

[VictorCharlie]

The idea that we are on the cusp of running out of oil, natural gas or coal is not really true. Growing markets such as China and India are increasing the demand for the resources and the western world is experiencing a bottle-necking when it comes to refining but there is a whole lot of fossil fuels yet to be tapped.

Why We'll Never Run Out of Oil - Reason.com

[Andre]

Common sense says and nature points to everything having a reason.

I wonder if science has thrown enough millions at the question; to prove that oil isnt down there for some reason other than for us? So that now some pratt in a suit and someone who thinks they know best from a university who has been taught what to think, can tell us all it isnt there for a natural lubricant or barrier maybe both.

And here we are on the surface of a rock that moves around on a bed of molten lava.

[TitoFan]

The idea that we are on the cusp of running out of oil, natural gas or coal is not really true. Growing markets such as China and India are increasing the demand for the resources and the western world is experiencing a bottle-necking when it comes to refining but there is a whole lot of fossil fuels yet to be tapped.

Why We'll Never Run Out of Oil - Reason.com

For every pro-drilling article you can post saying we'll never run out of oil, I can probably post one that says we're depleting the world's supplies. Depends on who's writing, and what their personal interests are.

Saying we'll "never" run out of oil, on the weight of the words alone, seems a bit ludicrous. Oil is a finite resource, which is consumed at a far higher rate than it will ever be replenished. Add to that the still to be established demand from developing giants such as China, as you yourself mentioned, and you have a huge increase in daily demand.

Economists can play games all day long with talks of bottlenecks and "turning down the faucets" in order to raise prices, all tied to the usual greedy, shitty politics we humans like to play with everything. But fact of the matter is..... demand is demand. We're still consuming at an alarming rate. And we're constantly under pressure to find new oil fields, and come up with viable technology to squeeze oil from previously ignored sources. In the end, we're still pumping gas.... whether at $4 a gallon, or $15 a gallon.

It's very convenient for those who don't give a shit about the environment or finite oil resources to lump everyone else into "cute-named" groups, such as "alarmists" and "doomsdayers". It's also lazy and irresponsible.

[VictorCharlie]

Tito,

I get the feeling you didn't read the article b/c the title is a bit tongue in cheek furthermore Reason internally source's all their documents. In short Libertarians deal with facts and logic unlike the other two major parties. They do a pretty good job of showing how we have allegedly been about to run out of oil multiple times only to find new deposits and new technologies to get resources previously believed out of reach. The bottlenecking is not some political game it is a real result of refineries being closed in the last 12 months for a variety of reasons which is slowing the supply side and causing the current spike in prices. I'm not sure if your last bit is pointed at me or not but I probably spend more time in the woods than most on this board and have a real vested interest in the environment and conservation. I don't worry about reports on dwindling oil reserves b/c it is an attempt to manufacture a false crisis. So yeah there is a certain level of doomsday proponents and alarmists out there beating the drum not altruistically but to further their own interests.

[El Kabong]

For every pro-drilling article you can post saying we'll never run out of oil, I can probably post one that says we're depleting the world's supplies. Depends on who's writing, and what their personal interests are.

Saying we'll "never" run out of oil, on the weight of the words alone, seems a bit ludicrous. Oil is a finite resource, which is consumed at a far higher rate than it will ever be replenished. Add to that the still to be established demand from developing giants such as China, as you yourself mentioned, and you have a huge increase in daily demand.

Economists can play games all day long with talks of bottlenecks and "turning down the faucets" in order to raise prices, all tied to the usual greedy, shitty politics we humans like to play with everything. But fact of the matter is..... demand is demand. We're still consuming at an alarming rate. And we're constantly under pressure to find new oil fields, and come up with viable technology to squeeze oil from previously ignored sources. In the end, we're still pumping gas.... whether at $4 a gallon, or $15 a gallon.

It's very convenient for those who don't give a shit about the environment or finite oil resources to lump everyone else into "cute-named" groups, such as "alarmists" and "doomsdayers". It's also lazy and irresponsible.

So WHEN will we run out of oil then? Next year? 5 years from now? 10? 50? 100? 1,000? 10,000 years? Since the day oil was first found & put to use people have said we're going to run out and at this point they have the same "batting average" as the people who have predicted "The Rapture"....so you can understand my being hesitant to side with them.

My view on the subject is this: if you want to find alternative fuel sources fine but do not expect me to use them if they are not cheap & effective, also I do not wish for my government to subsidize such flights of fancy when they are currently not practical. It is a waste of time and money and while there is still starvation & disease we should focus on those issues...perhaps better schools as well...as those things might one day lead to the discovery of a good source of alternative fuel. All the Anthropogenic Global Warming eggheads are doing these days is leeching off of government grants, lining the pockets of politicians with their bullshit boondoggle IPO's, and hurting the average person in the wallet. Gas is over $4/gallon in LA....nice stuff.

[TitoFan]

Tito,

I get the feeling you didn't read the article b/c the title is a bit tongue in cheek furthermore Reason internally source's all their documents. In short Libertarians deal with facts and logic unlike the other two major parties. They do a pretty good job of showing how we have allegedly been about to run out of oil multiple times only to find new deposits and new technologies to get resources previously believed out of reach. The bottlenecking is not some political game it is a real result of refineries being closed in the last 12 months for a variety of reasons which is slowing the supply side and causing the current spike in prices. I'm not sure if your last bit is pointed at me or not but I probably spend more time in the woods than most on this board and have a real vested interest in the environment and conservation. I don't worry about reports on dwindling oil reserves b/c it is an attempt to manufacture a false crisis. So yeah there is a certain level of doomsday proponents and alarmists out there beating the drum not altruistically but to further their own interests.

It's like many other issues, VC. Unfortunately, there's always going to be the fanatical "alarmists" and "doomsayers" that ruin the argument for everyone else. AND... provide oil companies and anti-environmentalists with good ammunition with which to fire back at the responsible people who just want their points to be heard. And while some bottlenecks may be in fact due to supply problems at some point.... there's been other, well-documented instances where oil "shortages" are nothing but attempts by OPEC to control prices for their own greedy capital gains.

So WHEN will we run out of oil then? Next year? 5 years from now? 10? 50? 100? 1,000? 10,000 years? Since the day oil was first found & put to use people have said we're going to run out and at this point they have the same "batting average" as the people who have predicted "The Rapture"....so you can understand my being hesitant to side with them.

My view on the subject is this: if you want to find alternative fuel sources fine but do not expect me to use them if they are not cheap & effective, also I do not wish for my government to subsidize such flights of fancy when they are currently not practical. It is a waste of time and money and while there is still starvation & disease we should focus on those issues...perhaps better schools as well...as those things might one day lead to the discovery of a good source of alternative fuel. All the Anthropogenic Global Warming eggheads are doing these days is leeching off of government grants, lining the pockets of politicians with their bullshit boondoggle IPO's, and hurting the average person in the wallet. Gas is over $4/gallon in LA....nice stuff.

Leave out the "next year", 5 years, 1,000 years, and the 10,000 years.... and the real number is anybody's guess, Lyle. I can only talk about what I've read in supposedly neutral publications. I read that at the current rate of consumption, with most other factors considered, we could be looking at a major dropoff in "readily obtainable" oil by the decade of the 2050's. Who knows?

And please read the following statement carefully: I too do not wish to pay for alternative energy sources that are not cheap and effective. That doesn't mean I don't want research and development to continue to try and make alternative energy sources cheap and effective.

Please read the following statement carefully also: I too do not wish for massive government subsidies to pursue these alternative fuels at the expense of other causes that need money. BUT... I also do not wish for development of these alternatives to be "discouraged" by the mighty financial powers that represent oil interests. Let's not be naive here. It is not in Exxon's best interests for some scientist and/or engineer to suddenly discover and develop a technology that allows us to free ourselves from our addiction to oil.

[El Kabong]

One shouldn't worry about "Big Oil" if their product will eventually run out, thatmeans eventually there will be no such thing as "Big Oil" much as there are no people using whale oil lamps anymore. In fact Big Oil, might lead the way in manufacturing alternative fuels so they can continue selling energy to the people....would that not make the most sense

[TitoFan]

Opinions may differ on this, but I'd rather not wait until oil runs out, or begins to dwindle.... (OR... becomes so expensive to extract that we find ourselves paying $50 a gallon). I'd rather continue aggresively on developing alternative energy sources now, while we can still consume oil relatively cheaply and easily. That way, we can someday transition off oil, while still maintaining enough reserves to fall back on.

[El Kabong]

Opinions may differ on this, but I'd rather not wait until oil runs out, or begins to dwindle.... (OR... becomes so expensive to extract that we find ourselves paying $50 a gallon). I'd rather continue aggresively on developing alternative energy sources now, while we can still consume oil relatively cheaply and easily. That way, we can someday transition off oil, while still maintaining enough reserves to fall back on.

Natural Gas is a cheap alternative and the United States has the most of it & it's cleaner fuel than oil or coal & fairly cheap....why not start there as opposed to some hairbrained idea about windmills?