practicing defense alone

[JakobM]

I like that tip im going to start doing that. Thank you.

There's lots of defensive action you can do alone with the bag.

I just want to point out that I'm pretty sure Dave didn't mean for you to "push/punch" the bag....

DON'T EVER DO THAT!

We react the way we train and you want to STRIKE the bag.... Not ever push it.

Also, beware of leaning on the bag..... It's an easy thing to do without necessarily being aware that one is doing so.

Actually push the bag to get it moving.... step in/step out..... pivot..... practice tons of footwork..... Take a tall stepladder and wedge some broom handles through the rungs.....Put the ladder behind the bag so the handles stick out on either side and viola, the bag now has arms.....
practice slipping.... weaving.... whatever you want...

Get creative!

ummmmmmm, something about necessity being the mother of invention...

CREATE!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you'll come up with something revolutionary and then you'll never have to work and you can box all fucking day long and....... errrrrr wait a minute that's MY dream....

Also, hang up some tennis balls at varying heights, then smack em.... That'll work your defence.

Make a homemade maize (slip) bag.... fill a stinky old sweatsock with some beans and hang it up with some string.... Total cost.... prolly about a buck.... if that.

Possibilities are endless!

Go and get ya some!!!

[Dave1066]

No, I did mean the punch should move the bag so that the bag moves. There are two different thoughts on that. And I'm in the camp that you should follow through the punch, so that you fully transfer the power, and build maximium strenght. That however does not mean you let your fist hang around. So that you could be counter punched (in a contest). Just tapping(striking) a bag wont build strenght as well as it could do, it will however develope speed if you do it quickly. One of the primary reasons to use a heavy bag is to build strenght. If I want to develope speed, then I'll use the speedbag.

Following through a punch is more of an old school train of thought..One which is fading. Following through and pushing is different. Learning to follow through on straight punches is very important, especially if you want maximum energy on impact transfered.

Lets not forget that it also comes down to the construction of the heavy bag your using, and also what the heavy bag is filled with. If your using a cheap leather heavy bag, filled with sand, like in the old days. Then no you should not punch the bag hard so that the bag moves. If your using an expensive modern leather heavy bag, with a 1-2" inner shock absorbing foam jacket, filled with bag rags. Then your fine to punch hard, and to follow through the punch so that the bag moves. Only an idiot could injure themselves on the latter.

My bag at home is the latter type, 4ft in size. I need a heavier bag. As it moves around a bit to much now. Or I'm going to have to attach a D ring to the bottom to anchor the bag.

[JakobM]

Dave.... Yes, one should ALWAYS follow through.

And you are correct that there are different views on the subject such as..... One should punch all the way through to the back of the target (in this case a bag) or one should hit the target with the idea of touching the spine, or one should aim to penetrate about 3 inches deep....

Either way you slice it, one has to punch through.

I use a 100 pound UFC bag... I hit it both as hard as I can with long and short punches, as well as lightly.... but always through..... By striking (not glancing if that's what you thought I meant)... not pushing.

The bag should *pop* not swing.

That happens from minimal contact time and kinetic energy... a push doesn't do that.

Maybe you just need a heavier bag as you say.

[Dave1066]

Dave.... Yes, one should ALWAYS follow through.

And you are correct that there are different views on the subject such as..... One should punch all the way through to the back of the target (in this case a bag) or one should hit the target with the idea of touching the spine, or one should aim to penetrate about 3 inches deep....

Either way you slice it, one has to punch through.

I tend to disagree with the above. Depends how far your stood away from the bag and what punch your throwing...The above quote proves my point actually. If your stood in orthodox stance. Punching a stright left, but not so that your left elbow fully locks. Then you are not following through properly, does not matter how deep you were hoping to penetrate on the target. If you arn't locking your elbow out in straight punches, then it is not following through and not transfering maximum energy. The locking of the elbow is important. With my technique on straights, it doesn't matter at what range I'm at from the bag. Because I fully follow through and lock the elbow and make a fist on impact, Dempsey style. If you do that at close range it will cause the bag to swing, it is not pushing. And it fully transfers maximum energy. And the time the fist is away from your face is no longer than a glance or a tap. I have never had a complaint at the two gyms I've use this at. Infact its been noted how much energy I transfer.....I have seen guys using your techniques. Which is great if it works for you and them great. Their both viable styles. But I go for maximum power more so than all out speed. More or an slugger inside boxer style...Having said that my fists are fast..

[JakobM]

Dave.... Yes, one should ALWAYS follow through.

And you are correct that there are different views on the subject such as..... One should punch all the way through to the back of the target (in this case a bag) or one should hit the target with the idea of touching the spine, or one should aim to penetrate about 3 inches deep....

Either way you slice it, one has to punch through.

I tend to disagree with the above.

You disagree that you should follow through??

What?

Also I never said anything about measure or range or distance..... Not to mention I never said anything about elbows... locking or otherwise.

I think maybe we're trying to say the same thing to each other, but somehow it's being lost in translation.

I'm ALL ABOUT hitting fucking HARD!

I'm not sure where you're missing me.

I will say though that one MUST have speed.

For a whole lot of reasons.... To hit harder being just one of them.

Cheers man!.... Don't get hung up on the semantics.

[Dave1066]

Dave.... Yes, one should ALWAYS follow through.

And you are correct that there are different views on the subject such as..... One should punch all the way through to the back of the target (in this case a bag) or one should hit the target with the idea of touching the spine, or one should aim to penetrate about 3 inches deep....

Either way you slice it, one has to punch through.

I tend to disagree with the above.

You disagree that you should follow through??

What?

Also I never said anything about measure or range or distance..... Not to mention I never said anything about elbows... locking or otherwise.

I think maybe we're trying to say the same thing to each other, but somehow it's being lost in translation.

I'm ALL ABOUT hitting fucking HARD!

I'm not sure where you're missing me.

I will say though that one MUST have speed.

For a whole lot of reasons.... To hit harder being just one of them.

Cheers man!.... Don't get hung up on the semantics.

You know from what I've posted before that, I agree with following through, and I explained in the post you quoted exactly what I ment. I'm not explaining again.

Yes we could be getting lost in translation. If you've been around martial arts aslong as you say you have then, you know that range, distance, techniques(locking the elbow) has everything to do with power....If you use a straight punch at short range, it courses the bag to swing. Which is what you brought up! That is why I brought it up, range, power, locking the elbows. I did not state anywhere that you brought distance, range, elbows.

Not sure how I'm missing you?
Maybe because you said not to punch the bag....To strike the bag. Which says strike to me isn't full power compared to a punch. If you punch a close range shot, it will make the bag swing, using proper follow through.

I said in the bit you cut out of my post you quoted "having said that my fists are fast". But I disagree with you on speed. If you look at boxing styles and individual boxers. You can see the difference. Having all out speed, you are not conveying all the power. A perfect example is Mulhammed Ali an outside fighter...Light on his feet, stays out of range, makes his opponent work. Then goes in with blistering fist speed, lands two to three fast punches and backs out. But hardly ever gets a KO. Compared to Evander Holyfield who is an inside fighter. Isn't about all out speed. Takes it to his opponent. Is about maximum power, slower speed, not athletic, but has an high KO rate. But both of them have good techniques and fundementals, even if they are different. Remember George Foreman was an inside fighter and faced some of the same oppenents as Ali but George KO them..When Ali didn't..Ali won on points or TKO. By speed I mean fist speed.

So their is a difference. The speed your fists fly at is not as highly important as technique and every facet of technique for conveying power.

[JakobM]

Hahahaha.... Speed isn't that important huh?

LOL.... Yes, and physics, much like common sense, only work part of the time right?



Whatever dude.