Ali vs Holmes: what could have been!

[brocktonblockbust]

1971 MSG Ali whips Holmes all night. What could Holmes hit Ali with that night, if Frazier's hooks couldnt do him in? 1974 Ali whips Holmes too. If Foreman's shots at Ali laying on the ropes couldnt debilitate the great man, no way Holmes shots would.

[TitoFan]

As a twist to a famous (or infamous) quote by Holmes:



A prime Holmes wouldn't have been fit to carry a prime Ali's jock!

[IamInuit]

Ali was tea-bagged by King and Holmes. Holmes was both Ali's apprentice and chief sparring partner for close to 5 years. Both he and fellow scumbag Don King knew dam well about Ali's crumbling condition. Sorry but I don't buy the injection analogy. I blamed Holmes more then King for years because of principle but today looking back part of me wonders of the choice he had. A young family and probably living in a one bedroom suite or something given the opportunity to make 3 million fighting the God of boxing and a crack at the title. Easy for me to say that he sold out morality. I dare say most of us would have done the same thing. Karma got him anyway first with Spinks and being denied the Marciano grail and then getting laid out by Tyson when he was beyond his prime.

King on the other hand is/was a scum bag of the highest order and his whole gig with the Wbc is well documented in the corruption category. Absolute power as they say corrupts absolutely. He probably would have pimped out his own grandmother. He knew w/o a shadow of doubt that Ali was done and already showing early signs of Parkinson's. Not sure what kind of payback is fitting.

[johnmaff36]

Ali was tea-bagged by King and Holmes. Holmes was both Ali's apprentice and chief sparring partner for close to 5 years. Both he and fellow scumbag Don King knew dam well about Ali's crumbling condition. Sorry but I don't buy the injection analogy. I blamed Holmes more then King for years because of principle but today looking back part of me wonders of the choice he had. A young family and probably living in a one bedroom suite or something given the opportunity to make 3 million fighting the God of boxing and a crack at the title. Easy for me to say that he sold out morality. I dare say most of us would have done the same thing. Karma got him anyway first with Spinks and being denied the Marciano grail and then getting laid out by Tyson when he was beyond his prime.

King on the other hand is/was a scum bag of the highest order and his whole gig with the Wbc is well documented in the corruption category. Absolute power as they say corrupts absolutely. He probably would have pimped out his own grandmother. He knew w/o a shadow of doubt that Ali was done and already showing early signs of Parkinson's. Not sure what kind of payback is fitting.

sorry mate but you musta got something mixed up. Holmes had a crack at the, and won, the title 2 and a half years earlier against norton and was making his 7th or 8th defence. He was long gone from a 1 bedroom shack.

ive heard it claimed that Ali recieved $50,000 in cash from King, given by a mutual friend (jeremiah shabazz or lloyd price) in return for Ali to sign a document withdrawing his claim against king for non payment of his purse for the holmes fight. An utter, utter scumbag. I suggest, if your interested, you read jack neufields book 'The life and crimes of don king'.

[IamInuit]

Ali was tea-bagged by King and Holmes. Holmes was both Ali's apprentice and chief sparring partner for close to 5 years. Both he and fellow scumbag Don King knew dam well about Ali's crumbling condition. Sorry but I don't buy the injection analogy. I blamed Holmes more then King for years because of principle but today looking back part of me wonders of the choice he had. A young family and probably living in a one bedroom suite or something given the opportunity to make 3 million fighting the God of boxing and a crack at the title. Easy for me to say that he sold out morality. I dare say most of us would have done the same thing. Karma got him anyway first with Spinks and being denied the Marciano grail and then getting laid out by Tyson when he was beyond his prime.

King on the other hand is/was a scum bag of the highest order and his whole gig with the Wbc is well documented in the corruption category. Absolute power as they say corrupts absolutely. He probably would have pimped out his own grandmother. He knew w/o a shadow of doubt that Ali was done and already showing early signs of Parkinson's. Not sure what kind of payback is fitting.

sorry mate but you musta got something mixed up. Holmes had a crack at the, and won, the title 2 and a half years earlier against norton and was making his 7th or 8th defence. He was long gone from a 1 bedroom shack.

ive heard it claimed that Ali recieved $50,000 in cash from King, given by a mutual friend (jeremiah shabazz or lloyd price) in return for Ali to sign a document withdrawing his claim against king for non payment of his purse for the holmes fight. An utter, utter scumbag. I suggest, if your interested, you read jack neufields book 'The life and crimes of don king'.

I was being sarcastic. That was Holmes first fight over 6 figures I believe and Holmes is on record saying that he did it for the coinage. Its actually hard to believe that King has managed to stay alive.
Must have antenna like street smarts.

[johnmaff36]

Ali was tea-bagged by King and Holmes. Holmes was both Ali's apprentice and chief sparring partner for close to 5 years. Both he and fellow scumbag Don King knew dam well about Ali's crumbling condition. Sorry but I don't buy the injection analogy. I blamed Holmes more then King for years because of principle but today looking back part of me wonders of the choice he had. A young family and probably living in a one bedroom suite or something given the opportunity to make 3 million fighting the God of boxing and a crack at the title. Easy for me to say that he sold out morality. I dare say most of us would have done the same thing. Karma got him anyway first with Spinks and being denied the Marciano grail and then getting laid out by Tyson when he was beyond his prime.

King on the other hand is/was a scum bag of the highest order and his whole gig with the Wbc is well documented in the corruption category. Absolute power as they say corrupts absolutely. He probably would have pimped out his own grandmother. He knew w/o a shadow of doubt that Ali was done and already showing early signs of Parkinson's. Not sure what kind of payback is fitting.

sorry mate but you musta got something mixed up. Holmes had a crack at the, and won, the title 2 and a half years earlier against norton and was making his 7th or 8th defence. He was long gone from a 1 bedroom shack.

ive heard it claimed that Ali recieved $50,000 in cash from King, given by a mutual friend (jeremiah shabazz or lloyd price) in return for Ali to sign a document withdrawing his claim against king for non payment of his purse for the holmes fight. An utter, utter scumbag. I suggest, if your interested, you read jack neufields book 'The life and crimes of don king'.

I was being sarcastic. That was Holmes first fight over 6 figures I believe and Holmes is on record saying that he did it for the coinage. Its actually hard to believe that King has managed to stay alive.
Must have antenna like street smarts.

True, though he did get put in hospital for a week after a kicking he got at a hotel by people/friends who knew Ali and the stroke he pulled on him

[Master]

1971 MSG Ali whips Holmes all night. What could Holmes hit Ali with that night, if Frazier's hooks couldnt do him in? 1974 Ali whips Holmes too. If Foreman's shots at Ali laying on the ropes couldnt debilitate the great man, no way Holmes shots would.

I agree 1971 Ali may have beaten Holmes or maybe 74 version that beat George.

[Dark Lord Al]

It was a mismatch , but Clay was his usual loud mouth self .
I liked Holmes as a fighter he was top draw.

[brocktonblockbust]

I liked Holmes too. But what can be seen in the Ali fight in 1980 is that Holmes was not in the same class as Ali. Watch the 7th round. Ali is able to throw and land jabs from every angle, leaning down, leaning left, leaning right, double jabs to the body, double jabs to the head, jabbing standing straight up, jabbing while retreating---at one point Holmes was getting embarrassed by the jabs, he got really angry after about 14 of them landed crisp, and he grabbed and shoved Ali and even Howard Cosell points it out, that Ali still had the Wizardry left in him, albeit slower and less powerful. The 7th round in my opinion proves who was a better fighter than who. Ali dehydrated and running out of gas and taking shots on the ropes and his legs out of coordination with each other due to early-onset Parkinson's does NOT show Holmes to be the better fighter.

Imagine 1967 Clay against Holmes. Clay by KO in 7.

[Gandalf]

Fighters do take a breather, I couldn't really read too much into a single round. Ali was shot and that was it, prime for prime it is an Ali win and fairly comfortably so.

[Master]

Fighters do take a breather, I couldn't really read too much into a single round. Ali was shot and that was it, prime for prime it is an Ali win and fairly comfortably so.

Agreed just because Ali got some shots in the 7th round does not really mean much in reality. Tyson toyed with Holmes to the extent that Holmes started getting cocky and messing about at the start of the 4th round he was dancing around. You know what happened then.