Why were Murderers Row ducked so much?

[Beanflicker]

Check the records of guys like LaMotta, Zivic, Soose, Overlin, and Teddy Yarosz, just off the top of my head and tell me who they ducked?

That's the problem: most of the guys who got ducked back then were never given enough opportunity to build up a name so we'd know who they are and know they were ducked.

Jake Lamotta talked a lot about it in his book Raging Bull (essential reading for any true boxing nut). He said that there were a ton of colored fighters that no one heard of fighting on small shows that the top guys wouldn't go near but who, in his opinion, would have chased the top guys and champs (including Robinson) out of the ring. They didn't have mob connections so they never went anywhere, and because Jake refused to get in with the mob, he was forced to fight a bunch of these killers on small shows for peanuts. In doing this he earned the title of a "policeman" (a term given to the guys who fought and beat the tough no names that the top guys wanted nothing to do with).

[Vendettos]

Check the records of guys like LaMotta, Zivic, Soose, Overlin, and Teddy Yarosz, just off the top of my head and tell me who they ducked?

That's the problem: most of the guys who got ducked back then were never given enough opportunity to build up a name so we'd know who they are and know they were ducked.

Jake Lamotta talked a lot about it in his book Raging Bull (essential reading for any true boxing nut). He said that there were a ton of colored fighters that no one heard of fighting on small shows that the top guys wouldn't go near but who, in his opinion, would have chased the top guys and champs (including Robinson) out of the ring. They didn't have mob connections so they never went anywhere, and because Jake refused to get in with the mob, he was forced to fight a bunch of these killers on small shows for peanuts. In doing this he earned the title of a "policeman" (a term given to the guys who fought and beat the tough no names that the top guys wanted nothing to do with).

Guys like Jimmy Edgar? He was a tough guy and I know this isn't the paramount aim for a boxer but he doesn't even have a wiki page.

P.s. I've never heard the saying policemen before. Nice info.

[CutMeMick]

I know for a fact I've never had the most popular opinion in regards to Murders Row and the likes of Charley Burley but here are my thoughts.

To me Charley is like "snowball" story as the years pass it get's bigger and bigger...
Was he any good? Sure he does have some solid wins.
Was he as good as people claim? I personally don't think so.
Was he avoided like the "plague"? Again I don't agree.

[Beanflicker]

Guys like Jimmy Edgar? He was a tough guy and I know this isn't the paramount aim for a boxer but he doesn't even have a wiki page.

P.s. I've never heard the saying policemen before. Nice info.

Probably one of them. It's so hard given it was so long ago and very little footage is available, so basically we're going on second, third, twenty-fifth, ect, -hand info. And like Mick said, the snowball effect is always a concern.

[Spicoli]

I think risk-reward just about sums it up. The risk was real while the reward wasn't immediate, only to come later as people appreciated and respected how good they actually were. I believe just facing a Wills by Dempsey aka Rickard would be looked back with more respect then resting on his arse after the Firpo demolition. Every generation has tons of guys who never get a shot...politics, money, fans with tunnel vision on only only one or two "known" guys or the fact the camp knows there is a solid chance they get an ass whooping.

[IamInuit]

[CutMeMick]

I just don't see the "greatness" in him...
Correct me if I'm missing any but he defeated: Zivic, Cocoa Kid, Holman & Moore.
On a lower level: Billy Smith, Lytell, Chase & Wade.
Out of that bunch Moore & Zivic are the only I can without a doubt say they are great.
Cocoa Kid has a solid arguement on it. The rest no...

[Master]

I do not know about their history thought it was a rap thing.

[IamInuit]

I just don't see the "greatness" in him...
Correct me if I'm missing any but he defeated: Zivic, Cocoa Kid, Holman & Moore.
On a lower level: Billy Smith, Lytell, Chase & Wade.
Out of that bunch Moore & Zivic are the only I can without a doubt say they are great.
Cocoa Kid has a solid arguement on it. The rest no...

Interesting. I think he's in the top 5 middleweights that ever lived. Based on the footage I have been able to watch and what I have read by many accomplished historians.
He's a perfect example of why records need to be scrutinized. In some cases they are full of "names" but short on quality because of when those names appear.
In Burleys case he has a shortage of recognizable names because nobody would fight him. Not just the white establishment either. Its why he and the rest of the row had to fight each other. Just like Moore he probably fought his fellow crew about 20 or more times. Moore was the only one to have broken out of obscurity and it took him 160 fights to do it.

[smashup]

Im just about to order this book about Burley from Amazon.

Very highly rated book and fascinating subject.

There must be a reason other than 'race' that they were so avoided

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0954392426?pc_redir=1401717129&robot_redir=1

[smashup]

For those who wanna read up on it

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderers'_Row_(boxing)

[Vendettos]

I just don't see the "greatness" in him...
Correct me if I'm missing any but he defeated: Zivic, Cocoa Kid, Holman & Moore.
On a lower level: Billy Smith, Lytell, Chase & Wade.
Out of that bunch Moore & Zivic are the only I can without a doubt say they are great.
Cocoa Kid has a solid arguement on it. The rest no...

Well Cocoa was in murderers row.

I heard about 3 of them as individuals and though they were ok. Then I found out they were a group type thing.

If I'm honest I've yet to see or hear anything that solidifies them as very good fighters.

Excluding Burley, as its obvious to see his skill set.