Can froch now legitimately claim to be remembered as better than Calzaghe

[IamInuit]

He's beaten better names at Super Middleweight than Calzaghe ever did.

Jermain Taylor
Andre Dirrell
Arthur Abraham
Jean Pascal
Lucian Bute
Mikkel Kessler
Glen Johnson

Apart from Mikkel Kessler obviously who on Calzaghe's list at Super Middleweight really compares with them names ?

Chris Eubank maybe but Eubank was weight drained and not in his prime, still a good win for Calzaghe. But other names like Woodhall, Reid, Lacy, don't really compare IMO.

And Reid and Woodhall were both coming off bad losses, Reid lost his title to a 42 year old Thulani Malinga in one of the worst world title fights i've ever seen.

And Woodhall had just lost to Markus Beyer, being decked 3 times by a fighter not known to be a hard hitter.

Calzaghe maybe the better skilled fighter, but Froch is more willing to fight the top boys and has beaten more dangerous fighters at Super Middleweight IMO.

Seriously whats behind those names? You wont see a Cal fan boasting about beating Roy Jones.

Taylor. Had no business being in the tourney and was ruined about 4 years earlier in the second Hopkins fight and barely snuck by Ouma and Spinks. That version of Taylor would have never made it to 12 rounds with Joe.

Dirrell. Did Carl actually win that fight? Well its open for debate imo. And btw with a 13 and 0 record he had no business being in that tourney either.

Abraham. Not only was he a career middleweight prior to the tourney but was and is perhaps the most over hyped, overrated, 6 minute, one dimensional rinse and repeat plodder of this generation.

Try to imagine Joe against Abe or Taylor. He'd be charged afterward for cruel and unusual punishment.

Pascal. Great win and a great fight.

Bute. Well imo Bute folded and completely fell apart but that's not Carls problem. Solid win.
And its worth mentioning that after the Bute fight many people including on this forum suggested Bute was a homer who hid out in Quebec and was out of his league. Well if that's the case then the win over him is no big deal.

Kessler. I don't think anybody today beats the Kessler that Cal beat and that includes Ward. Don't want to deflect away from Carls great win last night but it was pretty obvious to me that it was not even the same Kessler that he fought the first time.

Johnson. I love the Road Warrior but lets be honest here, he was beyond gate keeper status when he fought Carl. He was also 42 and career lightheavyweight. Glen looked like a worn out catchers mit when he made 168 and Carl could only manage a ud.

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid, Woodhall, Eubank or even Veit or Lacy. Frochs style is far more suited for all of them then Joe's was.

As far as head to head goes Carl and Joe could fight 10 times in their primes and Joe wins 10 outta 10. Joe defended his title more then any person in history and dominated the 168 division more then anyone before or since. He never ducked a soul and I challenge anyone to say who he ducked and when he could have fought them once again. There is this eternal suggestion every time the mans name comes up that he never fought some phantom player in his day. Who? When? Sorry but Sven Ottke will not wash

[AdamGB]

If Froch is worse than Calzaghe then you're right... Froch wouldn't be guaranteed a win, seeing as how Robin Reid beat the great Calzaghe in most's opinion.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, until meeting the massively hyped Lacy - Calzaghe was the equivelant of Sven Otke ('undefeated'... So what?).

You can argue that Lacy was ruined bu Calzaghe, but he showed NOTHING at all afterward and in hindsight, little before against elite fighters.

Calzaghe then looked a lot plainer versus the limited, if game Bika and it took a ridiculous ammount of time for him to actually get in with Kessler (the only post lacy win that I give him full credit for). The less said about slapping manfredo about the better...

The Hopkins fight was dreadful, Calzaghe had youth and workrate against the old man, he didn't win on technical skill and several people think that B.Hop was robbed.

Calzaghe said that jones was shot and then several YEARS later had the cheek to fight him and bill it as a megafight, ended up on his arse the same as he did with Hopkins.

Eubank was a good arrival at world level, but he was old and weight drained.

I like Calzaghe, but the overhyped lacy's destruction was a springboard for the typical hyping and careful stearing that we've seen from Frank Warren and far too many of you got over excited by it (ala Ricky Hatton).

His career (if not ability) is on par with Froch's, if not exceeded by it.

It's stupid to compare Froch and Calzaghe from just one mutual opponent... Styles make fights is a cliche that I have to use far too fucking much around here. Stop simplifying shit.

[AdamGB]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

[IamInuit]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

Please. I thought is plainly obvious what I meant by that. Best not to give people advice such as not to be simplifying shit. If I said no way does Cal beat Roy Jones in the context of this thread would you post a youtube vid of Cal beating Roy?

I'm responding to the person I quoted and styles do make fights and I could give two shits if people over use the dam term.

[ross]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

Please. I thought is plainly obvious what I meant by that. Best not to give people advice such as not to be simplifying shit. If I said no way does Cal beat Roy Jones in the context of this thread would you post a youtube vid of Cal beating Roy?

I'm responding to the person I quoted and styles do make fights and I could give two shits if people over use the dam term.

The term is "I couldn't give two shits"

[IamInuit]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

Please. I thought is plainly obvious what I meant by that. Best not to give people advice such as not to be simplifying shit. If I said no way does Cal beat Roy Jones in the context of this thread would you post a youtube vid of Cal beating Roy?

I'm responding to the person I quoted and styles do make fights and I could give two shits if people over use the dam term.

The term is "I couldn't give two shits"

Not here lol "I could give two shits" infers you do not.

Thanks though

[ross]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

Please. I thought is plainly obvious what I meant by that. Best not to give people advice such as not to be simplifying shit. If I said no way does Cal beat Roy Jones in the context of this thread would you post a youtube vid of Cal beating Roy?

I'm responding to the person I quoted and styles do make fights and I could give two shits if people over use the dam term.

The term is "I couldn't give two shits"

Not here lol "I could give two shits" infers you do not.

Thanks though

Ok...

The other one that gets misinterpreted is "I couldn't care less" I always see it written as "I could care less"

[IamInuit]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

Please. I thought is plainly obvious what I meant by that. Best not to give people advice such as not to be simplifying shit. If I said no way does Cal beat Roy Jones in the context of this thread would you post a youtube vid of Cal beating Roy?

I'm responding to the person I quoted and styles do make fights and I could give two shits if people over use the dam term.

The term is "I couldn't give two shits"

Not here lol "I could give two shits" infers you do not.

Thanks though

Ok...

The other one that gets misinterpreted is "I couldn't care less" I always see it written as "I could care less"

Interesting. Both are common expressions especially orally and I suppose Canadian slang. When written, it’s a matter of what came before it and in response to what. Just two different ways of saying the same thing.

[Memphis]

I rewatched the Calzaghe Kessler fight leading up to last nights. It really was a masterful performance from Calzaghe, the small adjustments he made to basically have Kessler at a standstill for the second half of the fight were brilliant and showed just how clever a fighter he was. Sure he had off nights, thats a given over a 40 odd fight career, but when he was in the most apparent danger Joe boxed circles around the two guys that were supposed to beat him.

Froch better than Calzaghe? Not a chance.

[imp]

Joe is a great fighter...but, he never took as many risks as froch and unfortunately he fought guys(not all) that were past their primes and never gave rematches in close decisions.

Froch never lies about injuries toget out of fightsand never ducked anyone inc glen johnson.

I still think 46-0 is an amazing achievement but its a shame when anyone brings it up theres a bit of an empty feeling in that undefeated record

[AdamGB]

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid

Carl Froch Vs Robin Reid (PART 2/2) - YouTube

Please. I thought is plainly obvious what I meant by that. Best not to give people advice such as not to be simplifying shit. If I said no way does Cal beat Roy Jones in the context of this thread would you post a youtube vid of Cal beating Roy?

I'm responding to the person I quoted and styles do make fights and I could give two shits if people over use the dam term.

Sorry, you're right... The Reid that essentially beat Calzaghe was a different beast.

[Dia bando]

Regardless of what's said about, Calzaghe undefeated undisputed Super Middle Weight Champion of the
world , also Light Heavy Weight Champion of the world, has a nice ring to it .
Carl Froch HAST LOST TWICE, were for all the BS , remember the only people THAT COUNT, scoring
a fight are the Judges.
If Froch had meet Calzaghe, Joe would have given him a important lesson a boxing lesson it's
called chap's, you all seem to get carried away with Froch he and has been OUT-BOXED, as
luck goes Talyor out boxed him all night dropped Froch, until he got lucky.
Froch is A GOOD fighter, but I would only rate him 4th in all time great Super Middle Weights
we have produced.

[IamInuit]

Regardless of what's said about, Calzaghe undefeated undisputed Super Middle Weight Champion of the
world , also Light Heavy Weight Champion of the world, has a nice ring to it .
Carl Froch HAST LOST TWICE, were for all the BS , remember the only people THAT COUNT, scoring
a fight are the Judges.
If Froch had meet Calzaghe, Joe would have given him a important lesson a boxing lesson it's
called chap's, you all seem to get carried away with Froch he and has been OUT-BOXED, as
luck goes Talyor out boxed him all night dropped Froch, until he got lucky.
Froch is A GOOD fighter, but I would only rate him 4th in all time great Super Middle Weights
we have produced.

Frochs got more household names.

[Fenster]

Regardless of what's said about, Calzaghe undefeated undisputed Super Middle Weight Champion of the
world , also Light Heavy Weight Champion of the world, has a nice ring to it .
Carl Froch HAST LOST TWICE, were for all the BS , remember the only people THAT COUNT, scoring
a fight are the Judges.
If Froch had meet Calzaghe, Joe would have given him a important lesson a boxing lesson it's
called chap's, you all seem to get carried away with Froch he and has been OUT-BOXED, as
luck goes Talyor out boxed him all night dropped Froch, until he got lucky.
Froch is A GOOD fighter, but I would only rate him 4th in all time great Super Middle Weights
we have produced.

Just because Froch has a better record doesn't mean he's a better fighter. We are basically comparing fighters from different eras.

But the fact is - Mitchell, Brewer, Woodhall - some of Calzaghe's best wins - are not as good as Pascal, Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Johnson etc, especially when you consider Froch's victims are still winning titles, fighting in world-class, whereas Calzaghe's victims were coming off a defeat and never did a thing again.

Hopkins has a better record than Roy Jones but prime for prime he never beats him.

[ICB]

He's beaten better names at Super Middleweight than Calzaghe ever did.

Jermain Taylor
Andre Dirrell
Arthur Abraham
Jean Pascal
Lucian Bute
Mikkel Kessler
Glen Johnson

Apart from Mikkel Kessler obviously who on Calzaghe's list at Super Middleweight really compares with them names ?

Chris Eubank maybe but Eubank was weight drained and not in his prime, still a good win for Calzaghe. But other names like Woodhall, Reid, Lacy, don't really compare IMO.

And Reid and Woodhall were both coming off bad losses, Reid lost his title to a 42 year old Thulani Malinga in one of the worst world title fights i've ever seen.

And Woodhall had just lost to Markus Beyer, being decked 3 times by a fighter not known to be a hard hitter.

Calzaghe maybe the better skilled fighter, but Froch is more willing to fight the top boys and has beaten more dangerous fighters at Super Middleweight IMO.

Seriously whats behind those names? You wont see a Cal fan boasting about beating Roy Jones.

Taylor. Had no business being in the tourney and was ruined about 4 years earlier in the second Hopkins fight and barely snuck by Ouma and Spinks. That version of Taylor would have never made it to 12 rounds with Joe.

Dirrell. Did Carl actually win that fight? Well its open for debate imo. And btw with a 13 and 0 record he had no business being in that tourney either.

Abraham. Not only was he a career middleweight prior to the tourney but was and is perhaps the most over hyped, overrated, 6 minute, one dimensional rinse and repeat plodder of this generation.

Try to imagine Joe against Abe or Taylor. He'd be charged afterward for cruel and unusual punishment.

Pascal. Great win and a great fight.

Bute. Well imo Bute folded and completely fell apart but that's not Carls problem. Solid win.
And its worth mentioning that after the Bute fight many people including on this forum suggested Bute was a homer who hid out in Quebec and was out of his league. Well if that's the case then the win over him is no big deal.

Kessler. I don't think anybody today beats the Kessler that Cal beat and that includes Ward. Don't want to deflect away from Carls great win last night but it was pretty obvious to me that it was not even the same Kessler that he fought the first time.

Johnson. I love the Road Warrior but lets be honest here, he was beyond gate keeper status when he fought Carl. He was also 42 and career lightheavyweight. Glen looked like a worn out catchers mit when he made 168 and Carl could only manage a ud.

Its not a given that Carl beats Reid, Woodhall, Eubank or even Veit or Lacy. Frochs style is far more suited for all of them then Joe's was.

As far as head to head goes Carl and Joe could fight 10 times in their primes and Joe wins 10 outta 10. Joe defended his title more then any person in history and dominated the 168 division more then anyone before or since. He never ducked a soul and I challenge anyone to say who he ducked and when he could have fought them once again. There is this eternal suggestion every time the mans name comes up that he never fought some phantom player in his day. Who? When? Sorry but Sven Ottke will not wash

You can slate Froch's opposition all you want, but the fact is there more household names than Calzaghe's best wins at Super Middleweight. Sorry but you think Woodhall, Veit, Lacy, would give Froch trouble ? really ? in all honesty he'd smash them to pieces. I think he'd beat Reid and it all depends on what Euabnk turned up.

As for your last comment there's few names he could of fought, but he didn't duck them. But he could of made more of an effort to travel, and he could of moved up to Light Heavyweight where all the big names were. He said for years he was tight at the weight yet he was happy just to beat up the Tocker Pudwill's of this world.

I don't think anyone thinks Froch is better in a head to head sense, although i think Froch would give him problems. It's the fact Froch is more of a warrior willing to fight the best, and travel which make's his record better and more likable and more willing to root for.