Can froch now legitimately claim to be remembered as better than Calzaghe

[CFH]

Froch now has a better record at supermiddle. He just matched Calzaghe's best ever win and has stronger backup form.

Unfortunately Calzaghe didn't fight in as strong an era, so his "gimme" fights, inbetween the meaningful contests, look really poor in comparison with Froch's consistent run of facing THE best fighters back-to-back.

In the past five years Froch's "gimme" was Yusef Mack. Calzaghe was still facing the likes of Manfredo jr not long before retiring. It's not entirely Calzaghe's fault, he spent the majority of his career with the "gimme" expert Frank Warren - however, the facts are the facts. Some of Calzaghe's best supermiddle wins were against guys coming off losses. They were good fighters, but he wasn't meeting them as champions. Jeff Lacy never did a thing again.

Calzaghe would have wiped the floor with Froch everyday of the week. But his resume is inferior.

And that pretty much sums up the entire debate.

[bigstinkybug]

In the end, who has the undefeated record. It's hard to argue against a guy who beat everyone he ever faced.

[Beanflicker]

Kessler that Calzaghe beat > Kessler that Froch beat

I don't think Froch is greater than Calzaghe.

[AdamGB]

Don't know about Calzaghe wiping the floor with Froch either. If you struggle with the strength and gameness of Bika and only beat an old Hopkins by virtue of Hopkins atrocious punch output then the relentless and insanely strong fighter who threw 1000 full bodied REAL punches (not pitter patter slaps) last night might give you a problem or two?

[ross]

Don't know about Calzaghe wiping the floor with Froch either. If you struggle with the strength and gameness of Bika and only beat an old Hopkins by virtue of Hopkins atrocious punch output then the relentless and insanely strong fighter who threw 1000 full bodied REAL punches (not pitter patter slaps) last night might give you a problem or two?

Hold the fuck on right there!

Ward was almost out on his feet in the last 2 rounds against Bika, its the worst he has looked as champion, he looked terrible and had to hold on for dear life!

But yet he pissed all over Froch!

Calzaghe fought with Bika and Bika has said Calzaghe was the best hes been in with

[AdamGB]

Your point being?

Bika shows that a strong fighter could trouble Calzaghe and negate some of advantages...
I don't see what that has to do with how Bika and Ward's styles match up?

[ross]

Your point being?

Bika shows that a strong fighter could trouble Calzaghe and negate some of advantages...
I don't see what that has to do with how Bika and Ward's styles match up?

My point is Ward struggled massively more with Bika to the point where the ref could have stepped in and stopped it. Iv seen worse stoppages.

But you are making out Joe struggled with him. Joe beat a fresher younger Bika. Ward struggled and looked like a ragdoll in the last 2 rounds BUT ward handled Froch easily.

If we took the respective Bika performances by Ward and Calzaghe as the only evidence of how a Froch fight might go for Calzaghe, then Calzaghe would just have too much of everything for Froch.

[tysonesque]

No, Froch will not be remembered as being better than Calzaghe because he's not the better fighter. Had they ever fought Calzaghe would have beaten Froch quite comfortably.

Froch has a decent résumé, but there isn't a fighter on there that Calzaghe wouldn't have beaten more comfortably than Froch did.

Carl Froch will forever be in the shadow of Calzaghe, Eubank, Benn, Watson and rightly so.

[Rantcatrat]

Just to play devil's advocate:

Taylor - Pavlik already stopped him. 160 was his best weight class.
Abraham - Dirrell already beat him. 160 was his best weight class.
Pascal - Great Win. 175 is his best weight class though.
Bute - Froch's best win.
Kessler - Good win. Splits series with Kessler. 31 year old Kessler beat Froch in a close fight. 34 year old Kessler lost to Froch in close fight. Age play a role?
Dirrell - Close fight. Counts as a win though.

[Rantcatrat]

What Froch has going for him in my opinion is that he took an all-comers in their home town, and epitomizes warrior. He could face Ward again, but I don't see a different outcome, even on home turf. A win over Hopkins would be a bump for his legacy.

[ICB]

Just to play devil's advocate:

Taylor - Pavlik already stopped him. 160 was his best weight class.
Abraham - Dirrell already beat him. 160 was his best weight class.
Pascal - Great Win. 175 is his best weight class though.
Bute - Froch's best win.
Kessler - Good win. Splits series with Kessler. 31 year old Kessler beat Froch in a close fight. 34 year old Kessler lost to Froch in close fight. Age play a role?
Dirrell - Close fight. Counts as a win though.

I think Froch deserves credit for the Taylor win, because Taylor looked sharp and Froch fought better version of Taylor than Abraham and ETC fought. Also remember Taylor fought Pavlik in there rematch at near enough 168, and Taylor performed better in the rematch than he did at Middleweight losing a narrow decision. Also remember how high everyone ranked Pavlik at that time.

As for the Kessler fight Froch is older than Kessler remember, also i think why Froch lost the 1st fight was because he was too passive. In the rematch he started off very quickly and was alot more aggressive, which is why i think he won rather than it to do with Kessler's age.

[ross]

Just to play devil's advocate:

Taylor - Pavlik already stopped him. 160 was his best weight class.
Abraham - Dirrell already beat him. 160 was his best weight class.
Pascal - Great Win. 175 is his best weight class though.
Bute - Froch's best win.
Kessler - Good win. Splits series with Kessler. 31 year old Kessler beat Froch in a close fight. 34 year old Kessler lost to Froch in close fight. Age play a role?
Dirrell - Close fight. Counts as a win though.

I think Froch deserves credit for the Taylor win, because Taylor looked sharp and Froch fought better version of Taylor than Abraham and ETC fought. Also remember Taylor fought Pavlik in there rematch at near enough 168, and Taylor performed better in the rematch than he did at Middleweight losing a narrow decision. Also remember how high everyone ranked Pavlik at that time.

As for the Kessler fight Froch is older than Kessler remember, also i think why Froch lost the 1st fight was because he was too passive. In the rematch he started off very quickly and was alot more aggressive, which is why i think he won rather than it to do with Kessler's age.

Kessler wan a world title 4 years before Froch fought for one. Kessler is tired at the weight. He first became a world champ at super middle 9 years ago. Kessler was a unified champ before his first loss to Calzaghe. It has taken Froch 2 losses to become a unified champ.

[ICB]

Just to play devil's advocate:

Taylor - Pavlik already stopped him. 160 was his best weight class.
Abraham - Dirrell already beat him. 160 was his best weight class.
Pascal - Great Win. 175 is his best weight class though.
Bute - Froch's best win.
Kessler - Good win. Splits series with Kessler. 31 year old Kessler beat Froch in a close fight. 34 year old Kessler lost to Froch in close fight. Age play a role?
Dirrell - Close fight. Counts as a win though.

I think Froch deserves credit for the Taylor win, because Taylor looked sharp and Froch fought better version of Taylor than Abraham and ETC fought. Also remember Taylor fought Pavlik in there rematch at near enough 168, and Taylor performed better in the rematch than he did at Middleweight losing a narrow decision. Also remember how high everyone ranked Pavlik at that time.

As for the Kessler fight Froch is older than Kessler remember, also i think why Froch lost the 1st fight was because he was too passive. In the rematch he started off very quickly and was alot more aggressive, which is why i think he won rather than it to do with Kessler's age.

Kessler wan a world title 4 years before Froch fought for one. Kessler is tired at the weight. He first became a world champ at super middle 9 years ago. Kessler was a unified champ before his first loss to Calzaghe. It has taken Froch 2 losses to become a unified champ.

Kessler hasn't really had a hard career though, he's a fresh 34 year old Froch has been in more wars than Kessler.

[X]

I think Froch's career is every bit as good as Calzaghe's. Froch has proven that he will fight anyone, anywhere and he has consistently turned up fit, prepared and motivated. he has shown courage and grit second to none - he is a real brute of a fighter.

Calzaghe, of course, has that undefeated record and it's always really hard to win an argument saying that anybody would certainly have won against an undefeated fighter.

HOWEVER - rather than try and make a logical argument based on who they fought, when, who fought the best people and all that (which is really quite subjective) .... I think Carl trades on brute force, he is so so strong but his technique is pretty ungainly. Ive noticed that he likes to box at the middle distance, and ward beat him by fighting either at long range or right close up. carl doesn't infight at all, if you notice.

I rate carl very highly indeed, but Calzaghe (in my opinion only) was just that little bit more multidimensional. If they has fought each other at their peaks we would all know exactly what to expect from Froch (and the only question would be whether Calzaghe could cope with it, did he have enough power to get carl's respect, could he outbox him, would he be too fast, would he break his hands on Froch's iron chin?) ....... but Joe was a master at creating and setting the tempo and style of his fights (he even changed it half way through against Kessler). I just think that - technically - Joe would bring too much variety and outpoint Froch by quite a wide margin.

I also don't mean to demean Froch in any way, because he is a magnificent fighter - his wars with Kessler (and the build up) are everything that is good about boxing.