Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[El Kabong]

The problem Tyson had- all D'Amato and Rooney fighters had- is that their style is reflex based. Jose Torres got around this by retiring early. Floyd Patterson quit using the 'peek-a-boo' after the first Johannsson fight; indeed, he'd already started to phase it out. With that style, you constantly have to react to straight punches, always be slipping jabs and right hands. And you are vulnerable to uppercuts. A good fighter- or Buster Douglas on a good night- will land that jab, then he'll start to feint it, to make you react, and look to land something meaningful off your reaction to the feint.
What happened to Tyson was, he slowed down a little bit, probably due to not training as hard initially. And then he had that bad cut in sparring and started sparring in full head gear, which got him in the habit of standing up straight. (to see under the head gear, a pretty common problem.) Then he was just a short, short-armed fighter with some quickness and a big punch. Some guys he could makes a move on, get in and do damage, others, not so much.

Also if you could catch him coming in then you could really put him in danger

[greynotsoold]

The problem Tyson had- all D'Amato and Rooney fighters had- is that their style is reflex based. Jose Torres got around this by retiring early. Floyd Patterson quit using the 'peek-a-boo' after the first Johannsson fight; indeed, he'd already started to phase it out. With that style, you constantly have to react to straight punches, always be slipping jabs and right hands. And you are vulnerable to uppercuts. A good fighter- or Buster Douglas on a good night- will land that jab, then he'll start to feint it, to make you react, and look to land something meaningful off your reaction to the feint.
What happened to Tyson was, he slowed down a little bit, probably due to not training as hard initially. And then he had that bad cut in sparring and started sparring in full head gear, which got him in the habit of standing up straight. (to see under the head gear, a pretty common problem.) Then he was just a short, short-armed fighter with some quickness and a big punch. Some guys he could makes a move on, get in and do damage, others, not so much.

Also if you could catch him coming in then you could really put him in danger

Yeah, because it would make him thoughtful. Then he'd stand back, straight up, and ponder his next move.

[Beanflicker]

The problem of course will always be that Mike left so many questions in his career. And you're 100% right, it seems like people either act like he's a god, or act like he's an overrated bum.

To me, Tyson will always belong in any discussion about HW greats. A lot of attributes he had, like his combination of speed and power, was unprecendented and still hasn't been matched today. He had great talent and skill to go along with his brutal power. Mike was truely a great HW, and I think his era was a lot better than people give it credit for. I'm more impressed by Tyson's opposition then I am with a lot of other HW greats like Joe Louis', Marciano's, and a few others.

I notice people pointing out that all of his losses were stoppages... well, 4/5 of Tommy Hearn's losses were stoppages. Was he not a great fighter?

[Master]

Tyson could have lasted longer and be managed better but ultimately he was to blame for it imploding earlier than it should have. I think he was spoilt by Cuts too much and did not learn to be a respectful human being.

[bradlee180]

Mike Tyson did enough to warrant a Top 10 All-Time Heavyweight ranking:

-Youngest guy in history to win a version of the World Heavyweight Title.
-Unified all 3 Titles.
-Destroyed an undefeated Michael Spinks for the mythical Man-Who-Beat-The-Man designation.
-Was rated Pound-for-Pound #1 in 1989, (Julio Cesar Chavez #2, Whitaker #3, Nunn #4, Meldrick Taylor #6, Azumah Nelson #7.)
-Was a dominant Heavyweight Champion for a few years in a worldwide talent field of over 1 thousand licensed professional Heavyweight Boxers.

His achievements merit a Top 10 All-Time Ranking. Other men are there with less. I don't think Tyson warrants a Top 5 though.
He didn't have longevity. When the going got tough in a deep fight, he didn't show that Champion's ability to turn the fight around to achieve victory; he got frustrated and went to pieces instead.

In his prime, circa 1986 to 1988, Mike Tyson was absolutely phenomenal...