Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[Master]

That last round where Tyson went into fury mode, hurt Holyfield but he could not sustain it as a prime version would have. That would have been good to see.

[Mr140]

Mater disagree when it comes to Tyson but you make some points and Holyfeild vs Tyson in there pump would of been something. But when Holyfield looked out he just come back like he was never hurt i say he still takes a close win with his head and holding when he needed to.

[bradlee180]

Could Holyfield have done it at Heavyweight without the juice?

When Holy was Cruiserweight Champ, the limit was 190 lbs, but Holyfield usually weighed in several lbs under at 186 lbs, 187, 188 lbs.
Holy wasn't sweating off lbs to make weight, he came in under, and he was like 25 years old at the time.

In April 1988, Holyfield scaled 190 lbs against Carlos DeLeon for his final Cruiserweight fight.
In Dec 1988, Holyfield scaled 212 lbs ripped against Pinklon Thomas.

Mr.Olympia legend Lee Haney was in charge of bulking up Holyfield back then.

Holyfield was a Great fighter, but how much did the steroids contribute? Steroids won't make a good fighter into a Great fighter, but I wonder how much did it contribute, and could he have done it at Heavyweight without the juice?

[cambay411]

Could Holyfield have done it at Heavyweight without the juice?

When Holy was Cruiserweight Champ, the limit was 190 lbs, but Holyfield usually weighed in several lbs under at 186 lbs, 187, 188 lbs.
Holy wasn't sweating off lbs to make weight, he came in under, and he was like 25 years old at the time.

In April 1988, Holyfield scaled 190 lbs against Carlos DeLeon for his final Cruiserweight fight.
In Dec 1988, Holyfield scaled 212 lbs ripped against Pinklon Thomas.

Mr.Olympia legend Lee Haney was in charge of bulking up Holyfield back then.

Holyfield was a Great fighter, but how much did the steroids contribute? Steroids won't make a good fighter into a Great fighter, but I wonder how much did it contribute, and could he have done it at Heavyweight without the juice?

Roids can definitely be the difference between a good fighter and a great fighter. You take any fighter and give them extra strength, speed and stamina and they will go up a level at least. Especially if they are a smart fighter.

Holyfield would have been great anyway but it could have been the difference in some fights as much as I hate to say it. IF he used roids I would loose much respect for him and that hurts me bad cause I LOVE Hoyfield.

I say "if he used roids" and I hope im not just in denial.

It really makes you think tho, how many ATG's have used roids?

[bradlee180]

Tommy Morrison was a good fighter, certainly Top 5 out of about a thousand licensed Heavyweight boxers. He didn't have that little extra bit of talent that makes a man Top 3 instead of top 5, and Morrison was on steroids.

Plenty of guys in MMA have tested positive, and they were not the outstanding fighters.

EDIT:
"If he used roids", Of course he used them!
From about 1988 till now, for 25 years, he's used them!

[cambay411]

Tommy Morrison was a good fighter, certainly Top 5 out of about a thousand licensed Heavyweight boxers. He didn't have that little extra bit of talent that makes a man Top 3 instead of top 5, and Morrison was on steroids.

Plenty of guys in MMA have tested positive, and they were not the outstanding fighters.

EDIT:
"If he used roids", Of course he used them!
From about 1988 till now, for 25 years, he's used them!

I know Ive read about it, im in denial probably. I mean look at how hes built.

[Mr140]

Yet Holyfeild has never been tested positive for a fight so if he has for 25 years and has not been caught then i am sure ever pro who does not do blood testing is on them. I mean if your career on the line and you can get better why not i honestly think they should be legal because everyone is using anyway. I mean with no retirement plan might as well take what you can get because fans only like you when you win and forget you when you lose. So if your a fighter i can see it being pretty easy chose to make to be honest with you.

[jahmez]

Too many "what ifs" with Tyson. Pretty much excuses for the shortcomings the whole world saw during his career. Its like saying that if Hatton had a better defence he would have beaten Floyd and Manny and thus become an ATG. Truth is he didn't and Mike couldn't overcome his own hubris. That to me is the biggest nail in his coffin, when you try to say that he beats so and so. Ali, Foreman, Marciano, Louis, etc. were deep down bona fide bad motherfuckers and would not fall for all the street bullshit that worked on lesser fighters and carried away fans.

[Boxer4life]

Could Holyfield have done it at Heavyweight without the juice?

When Holy was Cruiserweight Champ, the limit was 190 lbs, but Holyfield usually weighed in several lbs under at 186 lbs, 187, 188 lbs.
Holy wasn't sweating off lbs to make weight, he came in under, and he was like 25 years old at the time.

In April 1988, Holyfield scaled 190 lbs against Carlos DeLeon for his final Cruiserweight fight.
In Dec 1988, Holyfield scaled 212 lbs ripped against Pinklon Thomas.

Mr.Olympia legend Lee Haney was in charge of bulking up Holyfield back then.

Holyfield was a Great fighter, but how much did the steroids contribute? Steroids won't make a good fighter into a Great fighter, but I wonder how much did it contribute, and could he have done it at Heavyweight without the juice?

Roids can definitely be the difference between a good fighter and a great fighter. You take any fighter and give them extra strength, speed and stamina and they will go up a level at least. Especially if they are a smart fighter.

Holyfield would have been great anyway but it could have been the difference in some fights as much as I hate to say it. IF he used roids I would loose much respect for him and that hurts me bad cause I LOVE Hoyfield.

I say "if he used roids" and I hope im not just in denial.

It really makes you think tho, how many ATG's have used roids?

I actually just saw an inter view with Tyson where he said if he could do it all over again he would use steroids to enhance his ability, if he said that makes you think how many guys out there do it, considering most boxers have a whatever it takes mentality

[bradlee180]

I don't believe that drugs adds much to a fighter. Fighting is different from other athletics.
There's already tremendous variables in every fight. In combat-sports, I think the cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs, takes liberties in the ring and in negotiations to try to get an edge.

[Beanflicker]

I don't believe that drugs adds much to a fighter. Fighting is different from other athletics.
There's already tremendous variables in every fight. In combat-sports, I think the cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs, takes liberties in the ring and in negotiations to try to get an edge.

That's crazy and niave. Shit that makes you stronger, faster, and gives you more stamina (EPO) OF COURSE will add to a fighter.