Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[Spicoli]

Tyson was faster then Holyfeild and had a better power then Holyfeild. On the other hand Holyfeild was a better boxer, mental tougher, better chin, shows he can beat the best, and better foot work in his prime. I mean not to menstion he best the shit out Tyson when Holyfeild was shot pretty much.

Holyfield is an enigma, how can he come from Cruiserweight and become undisputed champion, fight toe to toe with Bowe in 10th round of their first fight, build up muscle mass and beat Bowe, have heart attacks and come back not only to beat Tyson but then fight Lewis to a close second fight whilst getting rocked by Stewart, Cooper and Losing to Moorer. Strange.

He also had a fuck of a time with Michael Dokes who was supposed to have been ruined by drugs by the time EH got to him

Yes that was an even fight up until that point, very good contest, but you would never have thought this guy would be undisputed champion and achieve all that he did. Remember his fight with Bobby Czyz?

Man you guys are bru-tal Yeh minus the rehab and being 'world ranked' and 3rd by Ring Dokes was a regular Glass Joe . Great acid test and ko for a guy making only his third pro start as a heavyweight I'd say. Todays "prospects" would kill to be able to say that.

[erics44]

hollyfield was a massive roider

[Beanflicker]

^This is true, but to be fair Mike probably was too.

[erics44]

^This is true, but to be fair Mike probably was too.

yeah thats true

even tho there is a lot more evidence with the changes in hollyfields physique to his roidness who can actually determine who cheated most

mind you hollyfield was caught and as far as i know mike never was?

[Beanflicker]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

[erics44]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

[Beanflicker]

From what I've heard guys in the know say (like Victor Conte), as tests get more advanced, so too does the ways to cheat them. Holyfield only got caught because they found his name and reciepts with his name when they raided a business that was providing pro athletes with illegal steroids. He never failed a drug test once! He just had the misfortune of buying from a business that got busted hahah (same with Shane Mosley and a few others)

Guys are still getting busted steady in boxing and MMA, so that says to me that there are ways to get around it. If drug testing was foolproof, nobody would be doing them. And the chance of getting away with it has to be pretty good if guys are willing to risk the shit storm that comes with getting caught.

Not that I'm saying Tyson did them for sure... I'm just not willing to say that Holyfield was juicing and all his opponents were clean haha

[beenKOed]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

Do you think because testing and more publicity about drug cheating there's more of it around today?

[El Kabong]

Man you guys are bru-tal Yeh minus the rehab and being 'world ranked' and 3rd by Ring Dokes was a regular Glass Joe . Great acid test and ko for a guy making only his third pro start as a heavyweight I'd say. Todays "prospects" would kill to be able to say that.

No I was just saying what Holyfield said. Evander said he fought Dokes who had gone through drug issues and he had been KO'd by Gerrie Coetzee and not really stepped his competition back up to the top level...Evander said here this guy was and he was supposed to be easy pickings a heavyweight fighter on the way down and Evander said Dokes gave him one of the toughest fights of his life and because of that he swore he'd never underestimate an opponent again. So the point is Holyfield was caught looking past Dokes not that Dokes was a bad fighter but given his recent troubles before the fight you can see why he looked past him. The man had fought Tex Cobb a few fights before Holyfield!

Dokes like many of his era had great potential but drugs took some of that away.