Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[erics44]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

[Beanflicker]

From what I've heard guys in the know say (like Victor Conte), as tests get more advanced, so too does the ways to cheat them. Holyfield only got caught because they found his name and reciepts with his name when they raided a business that was providing pro athletes with illegal steroids. He never failed a drug test once! He just had the misfortune of buying from a business that got busted hahah (same with Shane Mosley and a few others)

Guys are still getting busted steady in boxing and MMA, so that says to me that there are ways to get around it. If drug testing was foolproof, nobody would be doing them. And the chance of getting away with it has to be pretty good if guys are willing to risk the shit storm that comes with getting caught.

Not that I'm saying Tyson did them for sure... I'm just not willing to say that Holyfield was juicing and all his opponents were clean haha

[beenKOed]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

Do you think because testing and more publicity about drug cheating there's more of it around today?

[erics44]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

Do you think because testing and more publicity about drug cheating there's more of it around today?

do you think because there is more of it around today there is publicity about testing and drug cheating?

[beenKOed]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

Do you think because testing and more publicity about drug cheating there's more of it around today?

do you think because there is more of it around today there is publicity about testing and drug cheating?

Do you think we should do nothing because there is more publicity about drug cheating and testing?

[erics44]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

Do you think because testing and more publicity about drug cheating there's more of it around today?

do you think because there is more of it around today there is publicity about testing and drug cheating?

Do you think we should do nothing because there is more publicity about drug cheating and testing?

who?

[beenKOed]

Holyfield was proven as a roider. Mike never was caught, but the 80's and early/mid 90's were a dicey time for steroids in pro sports, drug testing was almost non-existant and the drug tests that were available were archiac and easy to cheat, especially if you were a multi-millon dollar athlete. The few guys that do get caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

do you think because testing and more publicity around drug cheating theres less of it around today?

Do you think because testing and more publicity about drug cheating there's more of it around today?

do you think because there is more of it around today there is publicity about testing and drug cheating?

Do you think we should do nothing because there is more publicity about drug cheating and testing?

who?

You! Anyone! Everyone!

Do you think there is more drug use now than say, before 2000?

Do you think adding more weight divisions has increased or decreased drug use?

Who or what do you think is the main culprit that drives drug use? Money, fighters, trainers, managers, promoters, glory/success/pride, maybe you think the fans have a lot to do with it?

Who do you think should clean it up? Sanctioning orgs, one global org or individual countries?

Do you think drug use and cheating drives the publicity or do you think the publicity drives drug use and cheating? Stupid or asinine question? I think so too, but it seemed like someone was suggestion the latter.

[Beanflicker]

Do you think there is more drug use now than say, before 2000?

Do you think adding more weight divisions has increased or decreased drug use?

Who or what do you think is the main culprit that drives drug use? Money, fighters, trainers, managers, promoters, glory/success/pride, maybe you think the fans have a lot to do with it?

Who do you think should clean it up? Sanctioning orgs, one global org or individual countries?

Do you think drug use and cheating drives the publicity or do you think the publicity drives drug use and cheating? Stupid or asinine question? I think so too, but it seemed like someone was suggestion the latter.

I dunno if you're asking this rhetorically or not but I'm bored at work so I'll answer anyway hahaha

1. I'd say it's been curved a lot since 2000 with the intense pressure by the government and the busting and prosecuting of prominent labs. But a lot of fighters are taking advantage of "hormone replacement therapy", basically you can tell your doctor you feel more tired than usual, less sex drive, ect and he can perscribe you testosterone. As long as you clear it with the athletic sanctioning body, you're good to go.

2. I figure less weight classes would cause guys to use steroids to "grow" into a weight class they couldn't normally get to without them. With more weight classes, there is a class to accomodate everyone.

3. Compeditive, Type A personality people have an insatiable appetite for winning. They use it to win and also to better help them recuperate from boxing's brutal training. I'd say they justify it to themselves with the belief that many others (including their opponent) is using or has access to the same stuff, so in reality they are just leveling the playing field.

4. It's the sanctioning org's responsibility, that's what they get paid for. Our tax dollars go to these guys to regulate sports and keep people from cheating.

5. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the last question.

That's just my view though!

[Master]

After knocking Bowe down he could not even raise his arms up to stop Bowe. Holyfield looked crap against Moorer the first time and should never have lost to the imbecile (that eventually got KOed by an overweight heavyweight which started the demise of the division). As good as Holyfield was, he was too inconsistent to be classed as a great.

BTW Tyson never took PED he did take the recreational type of drugs though.

[Mr140]

Master then Tyson can't be great because he never came back at all he never avenged a lose. I mean he just mental would give up not to many great fighters do that. I mean his last fight he just sat on the ground looking at the ref to count to ten. I mean Holyfeild was inconsistent at times but he had great come backs and way better wins if he fought in a weak era might of been different. Point being he showed hart never gave up and captured the title as much as Ali did was the only one to do it. Not to mention he started out at lhw and was already a unified cw before coming a unified hw he is great.

[Master]

Master then Tyson can't be great because he never came back at all he never avenged a lose. I mean he just mental would give up not to many great fighters do that. I mean his last fight he just sat on the ground looking at the ref to count to ten. I mean Holyfeild was inconsistent at times but he had great come backs and way better wins if he fought in a weak era might of been different. Point being he showed hart never gave up and captured the title as much as Ali did was the only one to do it. Not to mention he started out at lhw and was already a unified cw before coming a unified hw he is great.

I do not think losing to Moorer, being nearly knocked out by Cooper makes him a heavyweight great. He was strong but dumb.

I also thought we can all agreed that he was on drugs to do what he did.

[Mr140]

Master there is no way i can not put Holyfeild in the top ten hw he has a better resume then most of them in there. Moorer was better fighter then most of the shit Tyson fought in the 80's and you know what Holyfeild did after the lose he knocked him the fuck out in a rematch. You know what Tyson did when he lost bit a ear off in the rematch or not have one. Tyson career was during the weakest era since Rocky dude it was bad. I know your fan and mad Holyfeild kicked your boys ass and all but come on saying Holyfeild was not a great fighter makes me think your dumb.

[ICB]

Master then Tyson can't be great because he never came back at all he never avenged a lose. I mean he just mental would give up not to many great fighters do that. I mean his last fight he just sat on the ground looking at the ref to count to ten. I mean Holyfeild was inconsistent at times but he had great come backs and way better wins if he fought in a weak era might of been different. Point being he showed hart never gave up and captured the title as much as Ali did was the only one to do it. Not to mention he started out at lhw and was already a unified cw before coming a unified hw he is great.

I do not think losing to Moorer, being nearly knocked out by Cooper makes him a heavyweight great. He was strong but dumb.

I also thought we can all agreed that he was on drugs to do what he did.

I don't agree that struggling against a lesser fighter doesn't make you great, look at Joe Louis he was floored and in trouble against Tony Galento, i don't see anyone question Joe Louis not being great.

I know Holyfield isn't on that level, but i think his exciting fights, courage, moving up from Cruiserweight to become Heavyweight champion, does make him great.

[Spicoli]

After knocking Bowe down he could not even raise his arms up to stop Bowe. Holyfield looked crap against Moorer the first time and should never have lost to the imbecile (that eventually got KOed by an overweight heavyweight which started the demise of the division). As good as Holyfield was, he was too inconsistent to be classed as a great.

BTW Tyson never took PED he did take the recreational type of drugs though.

Respectfully my brother, but you are just tripping balls with that . He was within a punch of ko'ing Bowe and gassed out and spent running into a brick. Come on, it is the heavyweight division. That shit has happened to the best of them, nearly all of them?! Fact he came back in career speaks to his greatness! Moorer could flat box and that was probably his best most complete bout. A fast handed converted southpaw with a sharp power jab. Regardless of his eventual short comings at that time he put on a very good show...and still escaped with win via bogus 2nd round score after being floored. I don't call it inconsistent when you fight the very best completion, repeatedly, of your era and run into couple of bumps.

[cambay411]

After knocking Bowe down he could not even raise his arms up to stop Bowe. Holyfield looked crap against Moorer the first time and should never have lost to the imbecile (that eventually got KOed by an overweight heavyweight which started the demise of the division). As good as Holyfield was, he was too inconsistent to be classed as a great.

BTW Tyson never took PED he did take the recreational type of drugs though.

Most of Holyfields losses came after his prime. Hes definately an ATG tho his legacy is tarnished from PED's. He was probably off PED's for the fights you mentioned to be quite honest.