Duran : In My Era, Mayweather Would Have Been Ordinary

[Beanz]

For all his finesse and ability Floyd has not fought the one guy from this era who has some similarities to Duran. Hell, he even looks like him a little with his beard and all. Manny will be remembered as being anything but ordinary. Roberto is doing FMJ a disservice by calling him ordinary but Floyd has only himself to blame for history maybe not looking as kindly on his legacy as he would wish. Pacquiao fought Cotto 3 years before Floyd was willing to, he looked way more impressive against Hatton and Oscar, he fought Margarito, he was willing to fight people like Morales and Barrera earlier in his career, even though they were very dangerous and he had to rematch Morales twice to avenge his first defeat and prove it was no fluke. So yes there are boxers today who are not so obsessed with keeping their 0 that they take an obsessively safety first route their whole career.

Nobody is calling Floyd a bum, he is certainly an ATG but he is a long way from being as great as he thinks he is, and that is primarily his fault.

Good to see this thread ending on pac.

After all the opinions it turns out that floyd never fought a duran of this era which is manny pac.

Manny will never be ordinary and he fought every single top tier fighter at the right time and never ducked anyone.

Manny and duran are flawless and are the true atg.

The fact that floyd/manny never fought must be only floyds fault and floyds whole career has be based on this one fighter.

Great stuff.

Ps:- Every single boxer on earth wants to keep there 0..wouldnt you?

Nobody said Manny and Duran were flawless. I certainly did not. This is the crux of the problem. Boxing fans in general can see the greatness in Floyd but some mistake this as an impeachable flawlessness. Most boxers are not blessed with so much ability and yet are eager to test and expand themselves. Floyd has long periods of inactivity inside and outside the ropes and yet wants to be seen as THE greatest ? Do I think Manny is better than Floyd? No. Do I think Duran is a better boxer? No. Was Duran a better fighter? Yes, he was willing to fail and did not have the luxury of few contemporaries to challenge him. Floyd's master class in defence against a way past his prime Mosely was great, but for every fight? Cotto was neutered by age, Hatton by weight and some terrible refereeing. That is not hating Floyd that's being a realist, something a lot of Floyd fans think is blasphemy.

[imp]

For all his finesse and ability Floyd has not fought the one guy from this era who has some similarities to Duran. Hell, he even looks like him a little with his beard and all. Manny will be remembered as being anything but ordinary. Roberto is doing FMJ a disservice by calling him ordinary but Floyd has only himself to blame for history maybe not looking as kindly on his legacy as he would wish. Pacquiao fought Cotto 3 years before Floyd was willing to, he looked way more impressive against Hatton and Oscar, he fought Margarito, he was willing to fight people like Morales and Barrera earlier in his career, even though they were very dangerous and he had to rematch Morales twice to avenge his first defeat and prove it was no fluke. So yes there are boxers today who are not so obsessed with keeping their 0 that they take an obsessively safety first route their whole career.

Nobody is calling Floyd a bum, he is certainly an ATG but he is a long way from being as great as he thinks he is, and that is primarily his fault.

Good to see this thread ending on pac.

After all the opinions it turns out that floyd never fought a duran of this era which is manny pac.

Manny will never be ordinary and he fought every single top tier fighter at the right time and never ducked anyone.

Manny and duran are flawless and are the true atg.

The fact that floyd/manny never fought must be only floyds fault and floyds whole career has be based on this one fighter.

Great stuff.

Ps:- Every single boxer on earth wants to keep there 0..wouldnt you?

Nobody said Manny and Duran were flawless. I certainly did not. This is the crux of the problem. Boxing fans in general can see the greatness in Floyd but some mistake this as an impeachable flawlessness. Most boxers are not blessed with so much ability and yet are eager to test and expand themselves. Floyd has long periods of inactivity inside and outside the ropes and yet wants to be seen as THE greatest ? Do I think Manny is better than Floyd? No. Do I think Duran is a better boxer? No. Was Duran a better fighter? Yes, he was willing to fail and did not have the luxury of few contemporaries to challenge him. Floyd's master class in defence against a way past his prime Mosely was great, but for every fight? Cotto was neutered by age, Hatton by weight and some terrible refereeing. That is not hating Floyd that's being a realist, something a lot of Floyd fans think is blasphemy.

No one is taking offence in anything you say about floyd. I dont know floyd. He doesnt pay my wages. Say what you want about him. I acknowledge all his flaws but it doesnt mean we still cant have a debate.

All im saying is that everything bad that is said about floyd can be countered. Just like someone might have the same type of reasoning why duran is not a quitter or manny handpicked opponents at catchweights or is scared of needles.

Theres load od excuses to choose from.

You mentioned duran was a better fighter.

I agree.

Manny is a better fighter than floyd.

But guess what, the better boxer always beats a better fighter as is shown in floyds record.

Duran and manny were beaten by better boxers..floyd has beaten all better fighters and boxers.

Explain that one.

The same criticism floyd gets is the same every boxer gets but he is still unbeaten.

[El Kabong]

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

[imp]

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

Lol.

You get so touchy.

You know a short temper is the first sign of weakness.

We all wanted to see floyd vs manny but it just wont happen now.

That bus went along time ago.

Mannys head and marquez muscles might have increased in size but like you said they have never been caught on anything.

[El Kabong]

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

Lol.

You get so touchy.

You know a short temper is the first sign of weakness.

We all wanted to see floyd vs manny but it just wont happen now.

That bus went along time ago.

Mannys head and marquez muscles might have increased in size but like you said they have never been caught on anything.

I'm not touchy, you're out there in tears about someone questioning Floyd AT ALL...just take it easy.

As I said before, timing is difficult in boxing...I bet the fight happens, but it happens well after everyone had wanted it. Tyson-Holyfield, Tyson-Lewis, Leonard-Hagler, Leonard-Hearns II....so many big fights like that

[wellington]

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

Lol.

You get so touchy.

You know a short temper is the first sign of weakness.

We all wanted to see floyd vs manny but it just wont happen now.

That bus went along time ago.

Mannys head and marquez muscles might have increased in size but like you said they have never been caught on anything.

I'm not touchy, you're out there in tears about someone questioning Floyd AT ALL...just take it easy.

As I said before, timing is difficult in boxing...I bet the fight happens, but it happens well after everyone had wanted it. Tyson-Holyfield, Tyson-Lewis, Leonard-Hagler, Leonard-Hearns II....so many big fights like that

Waaaaaa, I'm a bitter whiteboy who's family will never see a fraction of the wealth Floyd Mayweather makes in a single night, waaaaaaaa, Floyd has no losses and my favorite fighter has been ass raped on multiple occasions and that's why everyone ranks him as an all time joke, waaaaaa, I have 40,000 posts on a message board because I have no life.

[El Kabong]

Oh, you're back.....you know they only ban you because you're black right

[Andre]

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

You have started up again: he isnt getting emotional! He is just stating the other take on it and that is exactly what threads are about. you are once again the only one getting personal (which is the real proven emotional part in full). Im surprised you cant see it.

[Andre]

That fool is banned again btw, if anyone sees him in here under another name just mention it to any mod and they will ban him again.
The mans a dick.

[FinitoElDinamita]

One of greatest Boxing minds at the moment in Stephen Edwards aka Breadman gives his take...

Let me just say this. When boxing people refer to certain numbers too much they manifest a false logic. Numbers are important in all sports but not so much in boxing.


I personally would need to know exactly what fights where these statistics were being recorded. Prime is a bland word and we can all have different opinions on when one’s prime started and ended. You also have to look at what type of fighters you are doing these statistics with and how long these fights lasted. More importantly I want to know exactly who the opponents were.


Statistical fanatics love to show microcosms on what they want to prove to be right. I don’t buy that. I don’t know who came up with these stats. But there is no freaking way Ali was a +4. Especially if we track his prime run of his title winning performance against Liston up until his exile after the Zora Folley fight. No freaking way. I have seen every one of his fights from his first tile reign and he was beyond dominant. Cleveland Williams, Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson barely touched him. Seriously you look at those fights and tell me if Ali hit them just 4 more times than they hit him.


There are just certain things that you can’t tell me. Then you look at a guy like Ray Leonard. During Leonard’s prime he was fighting a defensive wiz in Benitez, a top 5 all time guy in Duran and the most difficult welterweight to ever live in Hearns. If you mention the stats you have to mention the opponents.


I think Floyd is SUPER SPECIAL. He is one of the best I have ever seen and I have either seen or studied them all. This in no way is a put down on Floyd. But he’s not going +30 against those killers. No way.


As for Duran’s comments I wish he never said them. Old timers should show these new kids respect and vice versa. Everybody always thinks their era was the best, everybody thinks their neighborhood is the toughest. It’s just the way it is. But everything that is understood doesn’t have to be said. Let Floyd live in his era, the guy can’t help when he was born.

Now I can’t tell if it was you or the writer of the piece that said you have far more talent today than there was 30 years ago, but whoever said that is WRONG. The problem is if you weren’t watching boxing 30 years ago or you don’t really know the sport then you may not know the B level studs. Just like some guys 30 years from now won’t know how tough that kid Chaves is that Keith Thurman just beat. Some guys you actually have to really do research on or have been watching boxing at the time to know who they were.
There is NO way guys are better today at top or mid level. First let’s go through the top. Since you brought up Floyd, let’s use him as an example. Floyd has won titles from 130 to 154. Ok Let’s go back to Duran’s time. At 130 the best fighter was Alexis Arguello. I’m not going to get into who wins or loses. But Arguello is recognized as either best or 2nd best fighter ever at 130. His reign there was off the charts. Floyd would have had his hands full with a prime Arguello of 78-80. At 135 we have Roberto the Beater. Duran just beat you too death. Not so sure if Floyd would have won a title at 135 had he been fighting back then. Next you have Aaron Pryor at 140. That’s another tough fight for Floyd. That’s 3 all time greats he would have had to tangle with that are better than anybody he has ever faced.


At 147 you have Leonard and Hearns. They stand 5’10 and 6’1 and they would both be big problems for the great Mayweather. Then at 154 Hearns and Mike McCallum were the guns on the block. Let’s assume that if a 154 pound Miguel Cotto troubled Floyd than these guys would. So the writer who claimed that things were top heavy back then was dead on.


But he missed the killers in Bobby Chacon and Boza Edwards at 130. How about Edwin Viruet and Hector Thompson at 135. Antonio Cervantes at 140. Carlos Palomino and Andy Price at 147. Tony Ayala and Davey Moore at 154. I could really go on all day.


In this day and age of interim this and super that there is more room to succeed. But in those days if Duran or Leonard wanted to unify they had to fight Hearns and Esteban De Jesus. There is a difference bro. In this era Floyd is probably the only guy at these weights that could have competed with the killers from Duran’s day. No disrespect to these guys but you wouldn’t even see all of this moving up. Adrien Broner jumping from 135 to 147 to fight what champion?!


If Broner waits for Heanrs or Leonard to move up then he would have had to deal with Dandy Donald Curry and Marlon Starling. I’m telling you things are different. And trust me nobody would be moving up to 160 today if a guy like Marvin was around.


I will just leave it at this. I train my fighters to be old school. That word is popular for a reason. Boxing was more popular, you had less titles and better champions. There were some really good fighters who couldn’t win a title that would be a champion today. Ask any matchmaker over 50 how would Edwin Viruet have done with Antonio DeMarco or Ricky Burns at 135. Seriously. I don’t want to disrespect any of these fighters today that are trying their best, again they can’t help when they were born.


But there is just a difference. A distinct difference in the eras. I see too many guys that could not have competed at the top level years back. So let me name the guys who could have instead of the guys who I think would have just been ordinary. For the record Floyd MAyweather would not be ordinary in any era. He’s special. He just wouldn’t be a 5 division undefeated titlist. So the list goes Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Manny PAcquiao, Juan Manuel Marquez, Bernard Hopkins, Nonito Donaire and Guillermo Rigondeaux would rock out and give as good as they would take in any era at their prime weights. If I didn’t name them then they couldn’t or I don’t know enough about them yet. Now let me state the guys I named wouldn’t do all of this weight jumping and their records may not be so glossy but they would do their thing. That’s my honest assessment.


- Breadman

[Violent Demise]

Of the guys mentioned I think Floyd would beat Starling, Chacon, Price, Thompson and Boza Edwards. That's about it. Forget the top 4. Does anybody seriously think Mayweather would be able to beat Curry or McCallum?