Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?

[Violent Demise]

#1, i'm just trying to get under the dudes skin...especially since he's one of those "marquez beat pac 3 times" guys...get the fuck outta town

#2, I do find it funny that after whining, pissing and moaning for a 3rd and 4th fight (which pac didn't have to give him), he's staying extremely silent on a 5th

The 4th fight was the only fight where there was no doubt who the winner was. The matter has been concluded. No point in having a 5th fight.

[FinitoElDinamita]

It's offensive to even bring this up. Marquez has always been one of the stand up guys in Boxing with one of the cleanest fighting style so why accuse now?

IF anything, he should have juiced up in his biggest test against Floyd.. WHy stay clean for the best fighter in the world while juicing against a fighter who he already beat 3x..

Anybody who juices would not feel the need to drink his own piss. Now that's just over doing it lol.

I saw alot of Marquez' training sessions leading up to the 4th pacquiao fight and he practiced that right hand over and over again on the pads. His right hand made this scary popping sound that ive never heard from him before and that power came from added muscles and the fact that he totally sat down on his punches.

YOu really think steroids make you punch harder? lol Muscles can be added easily and when you are already a good puncher, it's not that difficult to increase your power.

Marquez' punching power comes from technique, timing and punch placement that the one that landed on Pacquiao couldnt have been more picture perfect. What made it even more devastating was the fact that Pacquiao RAN into it and when you run into a punch u dont see, you are going to sleep..

Steroids aint got shit to do with this KO.

This is true...the only thing that had to do with this ko was a lucky punch. He wasn't even looking where he was throwing it.

Tarver and Danny Garcia also appeared to have their eyes closed when they scored the greatest knockouts..

It's a split second reaction and you would know exactly what IM talking about if you've boxed before. When a fighter puts everything into a single punch, he's also exposing himself to a counter attack which means he had to throw exactly at his intended target.

On cameria,It only appears as though they closed their eyes but they really didnt. If you could watch those sequences in super slow motion, you'd see that the eyes closed at the point of impact.

They had their eyes locked on the target all the way through.

[AdamGB]

It's offensive to even bring this up. Marquez has always been one of the stand up guys in Boxing with one of the cleanest fighting style so why accuse now?

IF anything, he should have juiced up in his biggest test against Floyd.. WHy stay clean for the best fighter in the world while juicing against a fighter who he already beat 3x..

Anybody who juices would not feel the need to drink his own piss. Now that's just over doing it lol.

I saw alot of Marquez' training sessions leading up to the 4th pacquiao fight and he practiced that right hand over and over again on the pads. His right hand made this scary popping sound that ive never heard from him before and that power came from added muscles and the fact that he totally sat down on his punches.

YOu really think steroids make you punch harder? lol Muscles can be added easily and when you are already a good puncher, it's not that difficult to increase your power.

Marquez' punching power comes from technique, timing and punch placement that the one that landed on Pacquiao couldnt have been more picture perfect. What made it even more devastating was the fact that Pacquiao RAN into it and when you run into a punch u dont see, you are going to sleep..

Steroids aint got shit to do with this KO.

This is true...the only thing that had to do with this ko was a lucky punch. He wasn't even looking where he was throwing it.

Lucky? Marquez had been trying for the counter overhand right all night!... He'd dropped pac with it, hurt him with it and tried for it several other times when Pac was sharp enough to step back just out of harms way. If Pac and Roach had picked up on it then maybe he wouldn't have put himself in it's way AGAIN... maybe it wouldn't have been goodnight Pac.

Marquez didn't want it to go to the judges (he'd get robbed, again)... That's why he was behind in my opinion, his only goal was connecting on pac's chin with that counter right. End of story.

[Beanz]

Here's a homework assignment for anyone who doesn't feel that these guys should be suspected of PEDs.

Go on a bodybuilding forum and tell them you want to put on 15lbs of muscle, but you're not interested in using steroids or anything like that. You'll get a wealth of suggestions and tips.

Among those tips, you will NOT find "run X miles a day". You won't find "start jumping rope" or "start doing wind sprints".

Why? Because endurance training (which is a LARGE part of what boxing trailing entails) is not conducive to bulking up. It is totally counter-productive. When a bodybuilder is bulking up, he eats a ton, he lifts heavy weights for low reps, and he makes sure to get lots of rest and sleep. He doesn't do a ton of roadwork and endurance-building activity.

So when you see a guy, out of the blue, suddenly bulk up 10, 15, 20lbs while maintaining the incredible aerobic training schedule that a boxing camp entails, that's suspect. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not normal.

Where did you get 15lbs of muscle from ?

In the 3rd fight

Manny - 143
Juan - 142


In the 4th fight

Manny - 147
Juan -143

1 lb then for Marquez as opposed to 4 lb for Pacquiao

For the first fight at feather they were both 125lbs but that was 2004. That was 9 years ago so suddenly bulking up is a myth.

22 lbs for Manny
18 lbs for Juan

over 9 years.

Or is it the pound of muscle Marquez put on in a year between fight 3 and 4 ?

Sounds perfectly Normal. 15 lbs is not normal but then presumably that was just pulled out of the ether.

[Jerry Rice]

#1, i'm just trying to get under the dudes skin...especially since he's one of those "marquez beat pac 3 times" guys...get the fuck outta town

#2, I do find it funny that after whining, pissing and moaning for a 3rd and 4th fight (which pac didn't have to give him), he's staying extremely silent on a 5th

The 4th fight was the only fight where there was no doubt who the winner was. The matter has been concluded. No point in having a 5th fight.

Even Marquez admitted that Pac one the first fight.

[jahmez]

LOL Of course he did. What would you think if a convicted pedo teacher changed his name and started working in schools again? Or you were a fireman and realize that the new guy at work was an arsonist who had been just been released from jail? And I know that "you can't compare a guy just selling juice to meatheads to that kind of shit" so what about a meth cook on parole caught inside a chemist at night after hours - "I just fell through the roof mate..." People are entitled to the opinions but come on its right in your fucking face. Now I know that those examples aren't water tight because as soon as somebody discovered who these cunts were they'd be out of the job and on the news - but that's exactly where the problem lies. So what if these pieces of shit have to make a living? In other professions and trades you'd lose your license following a conviction related to your field of expertise. Most professional associations here in Australia won't even except you if you've been convicted of any crime within a minimum 5 year period. What's worse you've got these fucking dickheads like Victor Conte not only openly working with athletes again but openly bragging that the anti-doping systems are a joke, giving these little cheeky interviews bragging about all their "past" exploits and how easy it would be to do it all over again - except that they never would because they've suddenly "changed". It's fucking ridiculous. South Park storyline type shit. Then you get these fucking idiots pushing lame philosophical arguments about how if something smells like shit, looks like shit and tastes like shit it might not necessarily be shit - just a placebo with all the properties of said shit conveniently placed there by coincidence for no apparent reason. I remember when Manny wouldn't take the tests every forum had twenty page threads that would descend into what came first: the chicken or the egg? Or some thesis on quantum fucking physics. I remember some guy brought up an example of a cop telling a driver to do a blood alcohol test and lo and behold mental midgets literally started quoting legislation and debating civil rights. And yeh bringing up a fighter's public image to defend them against any accusations is fucking dumb as well. Imagine if Floyd was the one who refused to be tested?

[IamInuit]

I believe he did, He had a trainer for that fight that was known for it. Plus, His punches sounded hella different and his body as well. A Simple Yes or No.

No
He gained a pound from the 3rd fight. He chiseled his body but he's a little guy so it looks much more extreme. Not sure how a guy uses juice and keeps his weight within a pound?
All trainers know about the juice not just his.
The punch was as perfect as a punch could possibly be and probably would have stopped a lot of people
a division or two north.

[FinitoElDinamita]

I don't understand how any true boxing fan can view that punch as luck or a result of taking steroids.

It was simply sweet science at its finest.

Some fans will reach for anything to justify a fighter's loss.

[imp]

It hurts too much to accept that manny got knocked out for the 2nd time.

It could happen to anyone.

Floyd could easily get caught and his 0 is gone forever in the canelo fight.

Great fighters loose and come back even better and it will be interesting to see how pacman performs in his next fight against rios.

Pac could be better than he was even at this stage in his career but only against a certain type of opponent.

I wish pac would start his own promotion company and get 100% of the money he deserves rather than having so many managers and hangers on.

[ruthless rocco]

lol of course he did. What would you think if a convicted pedo teacher changed his name and started working in schools again? Or you were a fireman and realize that the new guy at work was an arsonist who had been just been released from jail? And i know that "you can't compare a guy just selling juice to meatheads to that kind of shit" so what about a meth cook on parole caught inside a chemist at night after hours - "i just fell through the roof mate..." people are entitled to the opinions but come on its right in your fucking face. Now i know that those examples aren't water tight because as soon as somebody discovered who these cunts were they'd be out of the job and on the news - but that's exactly where the problem lies. So what if these pieces of shit have to make a living? In other professions and trades you'd lose your license following a conviction related to your field of expertise. Most professional associations here in australia won't even except you if you've been convicted of any crime within a minimum 5 year period. What's worse you've got these fucking dickheads like victor conte not only openly working with athletes again but openly bragging that the anti-doping systems are a joke, giving these little cheeky interviews bragging about all their "past" exploits and how easy it would be to do it all over again - except that they never would because they've suddenly "changed". It's fucking ridiculous. South park storyline type shit. Then you get these fucking idiots pushing lame philosophical arguments about how if something smells like shit, looks like shit and tastes like shit it might not necessarily be shit - just a placebo with all the properties of said shit conveniently placed there by coincidence for no apparent reason. I remember when manny wouldn't take the tests every forum had twenty page threads that would descend into what came first: The chicken or the egg? Or some thesis on quantum fucking physics. I remember some guy brought up an example of a cop telling a driver to do a blood alcohol test and lo and behold mental midgets literally started quoting legislation and debating civil rights. And yeh bringing up a fighter's public image to defend them against any accusations is fucking dumb as well. Imagine if floyd was the one who refused to be tested?

this!

[Violent Demise]

#1, i'm just trying to get under the dudes skin...especially since he's one of those "marquez beat pac 3 times" guys...get the fuck outta town

#2, I do find it funny that after whining, pissing and moaning for a 3rd and 4th fight (which pac didn't have to give him), he's staying extremely silent on a 5th

The 4th fight was the only fight where there was no doubt who the winner was. The matter has been concluded. No point in having a 5th fight.

Even Marquez admitted that Pac one the first fight.

Regardless it was a close fight in which both fighters can say they won. Only one fighter can say he won in the 4th fight

[jahmez]

I don't understand how any true boxing fan can view that punch as luck or a result of taking steroids.

It was simply sweet science at its finest.

Some fans will reach for anything to justify a fighter's loss.

The punch wasn't lucky nor was it the result of steroids but I still think he was on the juice. I saw the videos of Marquez dropping a guy in sparring with the same punch and I feel that when him and Nacho sat down and studied how they would have to knock Pacquiao out they probably saw one of the biggest tells in boxing. Pacquiao throws his 1-2 after leaping into range behind a feinted jab to the solar plexus. Thing is he actually throws that punch maybe once a fight. Eventually someone will hear you crying wolf. So as soon as he tried to lie Marquez simply stepped in and let his right hand go. The fact that Juan didn't see the punch land doesn't mean it was lucky but the exact opposite - he knew exactly where Manny's face was going to be and where his money punch wouldn't. I think Roach introduced this "wrinkle" after Morales 1 when he watched Eric simply avoiding that straight left by pivoting to Manny's outside whenever he saw the double jab. Now all that's great strategy and tactics but the fact that an infamous doping specialist was in his camp under a fake name at the exact same time just spoils it for me. A great win nevertheless but in my eyes tainted.

[IamInuit]

The punch wasn't lucky nor was it the result of steroids but I still think he was on the juice. I saw the videos of Marquez dropping a guy in sparring with the same punch and I feel that when him and Nacho sat down and studied how they would have to knock Pacquiao out they probably saw one of the biggest tells in boxing. Pacquiao throws his 1-2 after leaping into range behind a feinted jab to the solar plexus. Thing is he actually throws that punch maybe once a fight. Eventually someone will hear you crying wolf. So as soon as he tried to lie Marquez simply stepped in and let his right hand go. The fact that Juan didn't see the punch land doesn't mean it was lucky but the exact opposite - he knew exactly where Manny's face was going to be and where his money punch wouldn't. I think Roach introduced this "wrinkle" after Morales 1 when he watched Eric simply avoiding that straight left by pivoting to Manny's outside whenever he saw the double jab. Now all that's great strategy and tactics but the fact that an infamous doping specialist was in his camp under a fake name at the exact same time just spoils it for me. A great win nevertheless but in my eyes tainted.

No offense but that logic kind of takes on the shape of a pretzel. He hired Herida as a conditioning coach and promptly got on the weights. He could have went anywhere for a steroid regiment. I mean why hire a past known distributor? Kinda stupid unless he wanted a good strength and conditioning coach regardless of the mans past. If he wanted to go on juice cycles the last guy he would have hired is Herida as far as the public eye is concerned and yet he hired him anyway. So its more then possible that he employed this man for his strength and conditioning knowledge. Again if he wanted to cheat, I don't think he hires this guy.

Its getting to the point nowadays that when anybody wins a highly anticipated fight in dramatic fashion they are labelled cheaters. It does not help when you have nut bar hacks like Kevin Iole suggesting his change was as questionable as Barry Bonds. People just cant accept that Manny is human after all. When little guys like Marquez put on a couple of pounds of pure muscle they tend to look massive in comparison to bigger men where such gains go unnoticed.

Marquez knew about the effectiveness on the right hand in the first fight. Its the punch that saved him. I mean it stands to reason because Manny is a southpaw and there is no better punch against one. It was the punch that made the next two fights as close as they were with many thinking he won at least one of them. So he brings in a strength coach to help him get the most of that punch by building up his overall body strength. I just don't see anything dubious here. They were infatuated by that punch and for good reason. He landed it often in previous fights and it was the money punch.

I mean Marquez fans could say that Manny lost because he was taken off roids because of his health once he left boxing and thereby looked beatable in the fourth fight. Or why he looked flat against Bradley. Or perhaps all fighters at the top are using one thing or another to gain the edge so both Manny and Marquez were juicing making it an even playing field. I choose to believe that Marquez concentrated his entire camp on landing that right hand because of his obsession in beating Manny.

[jahmez]

Lol at the pretzel comment, I eat them all the time :/ Following your logic Marquez could have hired any other elite strength and conditioning coach in the world yet he hired a man who was not famed for that field of expertise but rather for doping. This guy made up to $20000 per athlete per annum specifically for designing PEDs and cycles to beat the authorities - not for his knowledge of explosive lifting and plyos. This is from his own mouth. On top of that the guy uses an assumed identity? Come on bro don't tell me your actually serious? Let me guess he wanted to play where's Wally?... Or maybe Marquez just hired him so that people would think that he didn't have belief in his own boxing ability and then he would... surprise them! I wouldn't know if steroids help because I've never used them and I honestly couldn't really give a fuck if fighters did as long as the usage was allowed and stipulated in the rules of the fight but I gotta call bullshit when I see it.

[justaguy]

#1, i'm just trying to get under the dudes skin...especially since he's one of those "marquez beat pac 3 times" guys...get the fuck outta town

#2, I do find it funny that after whining, pissing and moaning for a 3rd and 4th fight (which pac didn't have to give him), he's staying extremely silent on a 5th

The 4th fight was the only fight where there was no doubt who the winner was. The matter has been concluded. No point in having a 5th fight.

Even Marquez admitted that Pac one the first fight.

It's hard to overcome the knockdowns from the first fight. Pac was an up and coming star... but his attacks were not conventional and he caught people off guard. Marquez was the first guy to somewhat solve that puzzle during his initial run and he got off the canvas after looking like he would be just another victim and put together a pretty darned good rest of the fight. Still, hard to overcome the first round.. and Pac did win that fight... but Marquez won a good portion of that fight, and Pac knew it - everybody knows it. Moral victories are not actual victories, though, so you are correct that the first fight was a Pac fight.