Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?

[BIG H]

Based on what he's done so far, where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the ATG heavyweights?

There are 2 ways of looking at 'what he has done so far'

1./ He has dominated the division for the best part of 10 years

2./ He has dominated the worst 10 years of HW in history, his best win is against Sam Peter, would is probably not top 100 all time HW and he has never beaten anybody that at least the top 40 HW of all time would not also have almost certainly beaten.

[El Kabong]

Based on what he's done so far, where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the ATG heavyweights?

There are 2 ways of looking at 'what he has done so far'

1./ He has dominated the division for the best part of 10 years

2./ He has dominated the worst 10 years of HW in history, his best win is against Sam Peter, would is probably not top 100 all time HW and he has never beaten anybody that at least the top 40 HW of all time would not also have almost certainly beaten.

I wouldn't call it that at all. Wlad has fought some very good opponents who will sadly never get the credit they deserve because boxing "fans" won't give them their due because they are spiteful and want to play up how great past champions were and never appreciate the present. Same shit happened with Lennox Lewis if you'll recall

[ross]

Based on what he's done so far, where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the ATG heavyweights?

There are 2 ways of looking at 'what he has done so far'

1./ He has dominated the division for the best part of 10 years

2./ He has dominated the worst 10 years of HW in history, his best win is against Sam Peter, would is probably not top 100 all time HW and he has never beaten anybody that at least the top 40 HW of all time would not also have almost certainly beaten.

No! No he hasnt!

Everyone is forgetting that there is another heavyweight champion who Wlad refuses to fight and would also not beat.

How can you dominate if there is another fighter regarded as a genuine world champion and who most feel would beat you?

In fact, put it this way...

If Wlad and Vitali were not brothers but had both been world champions for the last 5 years, would you still think Wlad has dominated?

Would you be annoyed that they have avoided each other? Who would you think wins based on their previous fights like Vitali giving Lewis his hardest fight and beating the man that smashed Wlad and then how vulnerable Wlad looks against punchers.

Would you even be singing Wlads praises?

Do you think Sven Ottke dominated the super middle division?

[El Kabong]

Do you think Sven Ottke dominated the super middle division?

Chris John and now Sven Ottke. You're comparing Wladimir to these boxers who ACTIVELY avoid testing themselves against the best just because Vitali is around? You're going to drop a fighter out of greatness because he won't fight his brother, but alright I'll play that game with you. George Foreman never fought Earnie Shavers, Mike Tyson never fought: Riddick Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer, George Foreman, or Ray Mercer. Evander Holyfield never fought Andrew Golota or Donovan Ruddock or Tommy Morrison, Lennox Lewis never fought: Wlad, John Ruiz, or Chris Byrd. Roy Jones Jr never fought: Eubank, Benn, McClellan, Collins, Ottke, Michalzswski. Shane Mosley never fought Trinidad. Joe Frazier never fought Norton or Lyle. Are those fighters any less great because there's a name or two that's not on their records?

Wlad and Vitali are brothers, they won't fight each other we never expected JMM and Rafael to fight each other or the Quarry brothers or anyone else. If Vitali wasn't Wlad's brother they WOULD fight of course, but this idea that brothers ruling a division makes it "easier" is bullshit. 1 of them is in the ring at a time, they both have won consistently and decisively.

I think with certain posters Wlad will never be accepted as great because they have a huge chip on their shoulder either about his fighting style or his brother being a great fighter too.

[ross]

Do you think Sven Ottke dominated the super middle division?

Chris John and now Sven Ottke. You're comparing Wladimir to these boxers who ACTIVELY avoid testing themselves against the best just because Vitali is around? You're going to drop a fighter out of greatness because he won't fight his brother, but alright I'll play that game with you. George Foreman never fought Earnie Shavers, Mike Tyson never fought: Riddick Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer, George Foreman, or Ray Mercer. Evander Holyfield never fought Andrew Golota or Donovan Ruddock or Tommy Morrison, Lennox Lewis never fought: Wlad, John Ruiz, or Chris Byrd. Roy Jones Jr never fought: Eubank, Benn, McClellan, Collins, Ottke, Michalzswski. Shane Mosley never fought Trinidad. Joe Frazier never fought Norton or Lyle. Are those fighters any less great because there's a name or two that's not on their records?

Wlad and Vitali are brothers, they won't fight each other we never expected JMM and Rafael to fight each other or the Quarry brothers or anyone else. If Vitali wasn't Wlad's brother they WOULD fight of course, but this idea that brothers ruling a division makes it "easier" is bullshit. 1 of them is in the ring at a time, they both have won consistently and decisively.

I think with certain posters Wlad will never be accepted as great because they have a huge chip on their shoulder either about his fighting style or his brother being a great fighter too.

Wlad has an element of greatness, depending on how low your expectations are for a great fighter

My whole point is that at no point in Wladamirs career has he been dominant. You know that as well.

Like I said. What would your opinion on Wlads standing be if Vitali wasnt his brother but he was still a fellow title holder for the past 5 years and one that beat someone who had just smashed Wlad to bits.

It would be exactly the same as someone giving massive credit to Ottke. Calzaghe would have the same criticisms if he hadnt puncuated his super middle reign, unifying against Lacy and Kessler to become the undisputed champ and having beaten the other top fighters.

George Foreman was never dominant! He only made 2 defences!

Your amike Tyson point is an absolute joke because Mike epitomised dominance during his reign. Yes he got beat but before that he was the most dominant fighter on the planet, beating everyone that was anyone in the heavyweight division, winning and defending all 3 belts 7 times.

Holyfield or Lewis id never have said were ever dominating the division because iv said it before, they got beat or avoided fighters. People always call for another Tyson because he truly ruled the division and was THE one and only champ.

[El Kabong]

Your amike Tyson point is an absolute joke because Mike epitomised dominance during his reign.

Not just beaten by Buster Douglas, SCHOOLED for 10 rounds by Buster Douglas. It's 1 thing to get caught hard and KO'd it's quite another to just get absolutely dominated. And Buster never made 1 successful title defense....NOT....A......ONE.

But you just keep fighting the truth bud

[ross]

Lyle, come back to me when Wlad has made 6 successfull defences of all 3 belts and there is no other fighter active that anyone thinks would beat him.

Get real!

"Wlad is the greatest heavy out there right now"

What about Vitali?

"He doesnt count"

[El Kabong]

Lyle, come back to me when Wlad has made 6 successfull defences of all 3 belts and there is no other fighter active that anyone thinks would beat you.

Get real!

"Wlad is the greatest heavy out there right now"

What about Vitali?

"He doesnt count"

THE.....BROTHERS.....WILL.......NOT.......FIGHT... ...EACH.....OTHER

How many more times must it be said? How many different ways? Do I need to translate it for you?

So the ONLY reason Wlad isn't considered great to you is because Vitali?

You recall the IBF title right? The title Tyson won off of Tony Tucker, the title he defended 7 times until his defeat to James 'Buster' Douglas. Yeah, well see Wlad has defended THAT title 15 times. That's DOUBLE what Tyson did +1 to grow on...but you were saying about Tyson?

[Mr140]

Evander Holyfeild avoided people are you high ross he fought damn near ever fucking fighter he could. As for the era Tyson ruled is as weak as this one damn near and he fucking lost to Buster Douglas at 40 to 10 to win the thing. People say this era is weak but i am sure it beats any thing form 1900 to 1960. There was the 70's and 90's they are the gold ages alright this time looks bad because it followed the 90's. I think if Wald keeps winning he will get in the top ten i have to see how it all ends for him.

[ross]

Evander Holyfeild avoided people are you high ross he fought damn near ever fucking fighter he could. As for the era Tyson ruled is as weak as this one damn near and he fucking lost to Buster Douglas at 40 to 10 to win the thing. People say this era is weak but i am sure it beats any thing form 1900 to 1960. There was the 70's and 90's they are the gold ages alright this time looks bad because it followed the 90's. I think if Wald keeps winning he will get in the top ten i have to see how it all ends for him.

I didnt say specifically that Holyfield avoided fighters, said Lewis and Holyfield avoided fighters and got beat, between the two of them they never had a long extended period of dominance where noone else could be regarded as a champ.

Lewis avoided Byrd, even dropped his title to fight Kirk Johnson instead

No one else since Tyson has had that many fights while being the undisputed heavyweight champ.

[El Kabong]

There was the 70's and 90's they are the gold ages alright this time looks bad because it followed the 90's. I

And how did Mr. Tyson fair in the 1990's? He was at MOST the 3rd best fighter of that era, perhaps 4th with Lennox, Holyfield, and Bowe to contend with.