If Lennox Lewis had rematched Vitali Klitschko.........

[YIDDLE]

Lewis would have learned his lazy lesson for coming in like a fat slob in the first fight, he would have whipped his 38 year old body into the best shape he could, and he would---in typical vengeful Lennox fashion---have exacted a startlingly brutal revenge upon Klitschko that we would still be talking about today. That's how he did it.

Yep I see lennox putting in a real elite fighter performance in a tough fight winning a clear decision or more likely a stoppage around the 10th

[Max Power]

Yiddle;

I could just as easily post a couple of vids of Klitschko wasting Johnson and Sanders and make a similar quote!

Master;

You can't swallow that an excellent counter puncher with solid defence like Adamek who has beaten tough and hefty contenders already like Golota, Grant, Arreola could not handle Frazier? Or hulking power puncher grant could not fail to knock him out.

Frazier has the combination of limited skill, lacking speed for a little guy, short stature, low weight, suspect conditioning and most of all is a punch weak glass jaw! A totally unacceptable list of faults in a superheavyweight era!

[Master]

Yiddle;

I could just as easily post a couple of vids of Klitschko wasting Johnson and Sanders and make a similar quote!

Master;

You can't swallow that an excellent counter puncher with solid defence like Adamek who has beaten tough and hefty contenders already like Golota, Grant, Arreola could not handle Frazier? Or hulking power puncher grant could not fail to knock him out.

Frazier has the combination of limited skill, lacking speed for a little guy, short stature, low weight, suspect conditioning and most of all is a punch weak glass jaw! A totally unacceptable list of faults in a superheavyweight era!

I cannot talk sense into you but you seem to respect @Freedom so hopefully he will back me up here. Adamek no can beat Frazier, who next Audley?

[Max Power]

Look I simply don't rate Frazier, never have. I've seen nothing in his fights to suggest his performance against Ali was little more than an expose of the holes in Ali's skillset.

Apart from Ali who mind you I know is a very decent opponent, who did he beat who has any relevance to a modern HW boxer? Nobody! He is famous for only the 2 reasons mentioned above imo.

Tomasz Adamek has limitations at modern HW because of his miniscule size but that is relative to HIS opponents. He is still 3 inches taller and heavier than Frazier! And Adamek is ripped at his weight where as Frazier was almost never in shape for his fights!

I do acknowledge Frazier was natural and Adamek uses steroids to achieve his physical self but I'm not referring to ethics here.

On top of this Adamek has a solid very good CW record- opponents who Frazier also fought remember and Adamek wasn't allowed to have the size advantage Frazier was and has faced some really hard opponents at HW where as most of Frazier's wins were against mismatched and undersized ones or with losing records with only few exceptions. Check it out thoroughly and you will see, I am not the only one to have shared this view.

Adamek is no world beater at HW but he is a multiple world titlist and much higher quality than you give him credit for.

If you believe in Joe, I wont try convince you otherwise, fine! But it will take more than heresay to sway me over.

[Master]

How do you think Ali would have done against Adamek in 1971? Foreman? Joe was a gold medalist. He was very fit. He was a brutal puncher with the left hook. He was heart and determination. To say he was overrated is silly.

[Max Power]

I think Adamek would have gotten Ali as well.

The performance of Ali in 1971 was terrible! Before Wladimir vs Povetkin, FOTC was the clinchiest fight of all time! And not just regular clinching, head down pushing, grabbing behind the neck, constant taunts. Between all the running and holding there was only about half a fight worth of actual boxing from Ali. Ali did very little effectively!

Most of all, Frazier mounted a very simple and limited attack based around his famous left hook which Muhammad seemed to be completely blind to.

This was no coincidence. Muhammad Ali had always relied on his height and reach coupled with his speed and sense of distance to land his shots outside and get away undamaged. All the time masking a truth about Ali that first surfaced in his fight with Frazier..

Ali had no reflexes! The 70's Ali had slowed down considerably and could not run from his opponents like he used to, and it turned out Ali was no Chris Byrd, he could not stand in front of his opponent and not get hit and Frazier chased him down and landed the same punch on him all night.

Tomasz Adamek would basically have a human punch bag in front of him! Because that's what Ali of the 70's relied on most... Chin and punch resistance!

[Master]

You are amazing.