manny is about the same as he has been for years

[bigstinkybug]

unlike most people, i feel that pac hasnt really improved or gotten worse for the past 10 years or so. people have been saying that he has started to go downhill the last few years but i have never thought that was true. the main argument is about the knockouts that he has been lacking for the past while. the difference is that he has been fighting guys with really good chins recently. the rios fight showed me that pac is the same fighter as always. he can still move well and he still has a good punch and good chin. i feel that his speed is about the same too. and dont forget that he was beating JMM in their fight pretty easily before he got KO'd.

*Ive always felt the same. I hadn't seen one change or slip in speed. his speed is blinding with big power. He's no koing fighters,not cuz he's slipped, but becuz he's fighting bigger opposition...in the end, these guys are beat up... even Marquez was beat the hell up when he landed that one punch... it was a hell of a punch though. Never have I seen a fight where people said"i think he's dead"... that was crazy.

[chris6878]

I will say he's slowed but there are other factors contributing to his performance. Marquez catching him in the last fight was part planning practice and application by JMM and Nacho.

His performance against Rios is a mental issue. Manny needed to get past this one without incident to start to fully put this one behind him. That's why even though he could hit Rios at will, he didn't light him up at the end to put an exclamation mark on it. He didn't want to run into anything that brought it all crashing back. Especially with Rios, as that's his only chance to turn the tides (First fight w/ Alvarado). Manny should have did a better job clinching Rios on the inside as some of those rabbit punches had Manny overthinking early on.


Better assessment on the next time out depending on the opponent and their capability.

did jmm and nacho plan manny busting jmm up until the ko? pac was whooping him and people say he should stay away from jmm? if pac would've not went in for the kill and fought the kinda fight he did against rios, he would've stopped jmm. jmm will not fight him again because he knows he was in trouble....imo

What fight were you watching? The rounds were simple to score. Pac clearly won 1 & 2, Marquez clearly won 3 & 4, Pac won 5 and Marquez knocked him out in the 6th. So 47-46 Pacquiao at the time of the stoppage is hardly "whooping him" now is it? Say Pac gets up from that bullet of a right hand he walked onto, he's now a point behind on the scorecards. Again, hardly "whooping him" is it? Pacquiao hasn't whopped Marquez in 42 rounds of trying so don't try and rewrite history with fanboy comments and face the reality of what actually happened. He walked onto a perfectly timed right hand and got knocked the fuck out.

pac was also winning that round with a ton of momentum before the ko. Im not taking anything away from jmm, but round 6 looked like the beggining of the end for jmm....until the ko

[chris6878]

if pac would've not went in for the kill and fought the kinda fight he did against rios, he would've stopped jmm.

There is no fighting JMM like he fought Rios. They are completely different fighters.

JMM always gave Pac problems because he's effectively aggressive, and he doesn't let Pacquaio jump in, shoe shine, and jump out: he fires back with hard, FAST counters. And of course, he moves. He doesn't stand in front of Pacquiao like so many other opponents have done.

JMM will always be a complete dog fight for Pacquaio. Pac would have stopped him? What makes you say that? Pac has fought him 4 times now, dropped him countless times, shattered his nose, and each time JMM has came through it.

I didnt mean to say fight jmm like he did rios, I was trying to say not rushing in for the kill like he did with he got ktfo

[Master]

Manny beat a limited opponent which was hand picked for him to get a first victory in over 2 years. Until he fights a more respectable opponent we cannot say how far he has slipped.

[zhubin]

Manny beat a limited opponent which was hand picked for him to get a first victory in over 2 years. Until he fights a more respectable opponent we cannot say how far he has slipped.

Exactly. I think Manny was slipping even before he got KOed against Marquez. It's amazing how fighting a guy who was hand picked to make Pac look good all of sudden has people believing he has a shot against the likes of Floyd.

[bradlee180]

It's amazing how fighting a guy who was hand picked to make Pac look good all of sudden has people believing he has a shot against the likes of Floyd.

Floyd has been handpicking opponents for over 10 years since the 2002 Castillo controversy...

[Beanflicker]

Exactly. I think Manny was slipping even before he got KOed against Marquez. It's amazing how fighting a guy who was hand picked to make Pac look good all of sudden has people believing he has a shot against the likes of Floyd.

Doesn't matter if he's hand picked or not. All you need to see is if the speed and reflexes are still there, which they seem to be.

[bradlee180]

Manny Pacquiao is definitely NOT the same.
Only johnny-come-latelies would say he is.

Way back in 2003 is when he made the big time with the Barrera upset.
He developed and continually improved, and was in the zone 2008-2010.
Since the Nov 2010 Margarito fight, Pacquiao's been on the slide.
It's been a slow slide though, not the abrupt kind where a guy shows up one night and simply just doesn't have it anymore.

His speed ain't the same, his killer-instinct ain't the same, even his pace and energy levels aren't the same. Still has good punch resistance aside from the Marquez shot which was a perfect shot and would've took out any welterweight. He's still a top fighter though even if he's not what he used to be.

Floyd ain't the same either. He has excellent technical skills which will allow him to compete with much younger guys even as his physical abilities aren't the same anymore. Floyd ain't as fast as he used to be, his reflexes have slowed a bit so he gets hit more nowadays, his pace has slowed making him far more economical with his pot-shots. His face is even looking old these days.

Both these guys are still faster than most fighters, but they don't have the super-human blurry-fast speed they used to have.

It would've been prime-to-prime a couple of years ago; now it would be two slightly-past-it guys and who has fallen further? I wouldn't pay for it...

I didn't pay for Roy Jones/Tito Trinidad, Roy Jones/Bernard Hopkins II either...

[zhubin]

It's amazing how fighting a guy who was hand picked to make Pac look good all of sudden has people believing he has a shot against the likes of Floyd.

Floyd has been handpicking opponents for over 10 years since the 2002 Castillo controversy...

Floyd's last fight was against a guy who was bigger than him and considered by many to be one of the bright new stars of boxing. Manny just fought a punch drunk, limited stiff. Stop hating.

[chris6878]

It's amazing how fighting a guy who was hand picked to make Pac look good all of sudden has people believing he has a shot against the likes of Floyd.

Floyd has been handpicking opponents for over 10 years since the 2002 Castillo controversy...

Floyd's last fight was against a guy who was bigger than him and considered by many to be one of the bright new stars of boxing. Manny just fought a punch drunk, limited stiff. Stop hating.

nobody on earth thought that canelo had a chance to win.....not even him. Canelo hasn't done nothing to say he is a all time great or close to it. both Floyd and pac had handpicked stiffs that were both limited.

[bradlee180]

Stop hating.

The term "hater" is one of those terms used by the immature as an out rather than engaging in intelligent discourse backed by research, assessments, and logic-based conclusions. Stop being childish...buttbreath.

[bradlee180]

Neither Canelo nor Brandon Rios are stiffs. Any Top 3 man is elite, and they both warrant Top 3 rankings. They both can fight. However, Pacquiao and Mayweather have been on the P4P list for years, Pacquiao being awarded the "Fighter of the Decade" award. They're on a different level, and the proof of how good they really are is that even a bit past it, they're still too much for Top 3 guys who are in their mid-20s and about a decade younger...

[miron_lang]

Pacquiao of 2009 is the prime version.


speed, power, angles, defense, chin, timing.


The Rios version lacks the power because they train for ultimate speed. Pac was thinking of landing combos and not primarily landing a huge shot like the one he hit Hatton with.

[OMGWTF]

Pac is fine.

I just dont get how everyone suddenly thought he was done due to 1 knockout. (Are people retarded or just overly negative?)

I mean WTF so what.

It means absolutely nothing. He just got caught. He woke up again. No difference. So what.

Yet it seems the general consensus that he is done due to a few seconds of unconsciousness and an otherwise brilliant performance.

He just needs to work on his defense the one area roach sucks at, also a few PED's wouldnt hurt, lastly he needs to devote himself to boxing rather than his political role etc etc

[Hulk]

Pac is fine.

I just dont get how everyone suddenly thought he was done due to 1 knockout. (Are people retarded or just overly negative?)

I mean WTF so what.

It means absolutely nothing. He just got caught. He woke up again. No difference. So what.

Yet it seems the general consensus that he is done due to a few seconds of unconsciousness and an otherwise brilliant performance.

People had reservations after seeing what happened to Roy Jones after his first KO loss.

That wasn't Pac's first KO loss, but it was the first one in a loooooong time since he became a star.