Forget the rematch , Hearn to meet HBO next week

[Primo Carnera]

I think it sucks that they aren't trying to give Groves the rematch he deserves.

I think it's great news that Groves isn't getting the rematch. he wouldn't get a fair shake against Hearns' cash cow, That's already proven. He's a free agent, he should be looking to get the promoter who can deliver a shot at Stieglitz's WBO Title. He's next in line on their rankings after Abraham and Abraham has already been KO'd by him 6 months ago.No Guarantees that he beats him, but at least he won't get robbed.
As for Froch, I know Amir Khan has his own agenda, but one thing he said I agree with: whoever Froch fights next, he gets beat. I personally think HBO will see Froch as an easy title to get to enhance the credibility of either GGG or Chavez jr. Froch has been exposed big time!

what exactly has froch been exposed as?

Slow
Flat Footed
Susceptible to the big overhand Right
Generally easy to hit.
Inability to throw decent combinations - see flat footed
Resort to Dirty tactics when desperate (forearms , elbows, hitting on the break, etc.) - I actually think this also shows good character that he doesn't want to lose to be fair.

And the only other thing he's got going for him is an undoubted granite chin! but you don't win fights by TAKING Punches.
let's not forget that before the fight , "Groves didn't deserve to be in the same ring , would run all night and was definitely getting flattened early GUARANTEED!"

was he exposed as all these against pascal, taylor, kessler, abraham, johnson, bute?

Well actually, yes.
Pascal- before he fought Froch, what had he actually done?
Taylor- a quicker man moving up a weight who for 11 rounds and 2 mins 46secs outboxed Froch.
Kessler- 1st fight yes, 2nd fight was more about how much Kessler had deteriorated.
Abraham- blown up Middleweight who got schooled by Andre Dirrell in the fight before Froch. By the way, I notice you never mentioned Dirrell, because he outboxed Froch as well.
Johnson- he struggled against a tough old man, and Groves beat Johnson better than Froch did.
Bute- that is the one on your list I cannot really pick holes in.
My point is that whether you agree with me or not, there are question marks about all of them. I've got to say in his defence , his chin is amazing and he's never ducked anyone.

[Kirkland Laing]

he's never ducked anyone.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tml#post509628

[Gandalf]

This Froch superstar rubbish needs to stop. He lost this fight clearly, he lost to Ward clearly, his major wins are against chinny Bute, hands up Abraham, chinny Taylor, road horse Johnson, Kessler after he was old enough, and that is Froch for you. Calzaghe would have humiliated him, rubbed his weirdly long nose in shame, and it would have been done with, but instead Froch is supposedly in talks for a money fight after that? It's a disgrace.

Hearn and Froch need to be slapped with a kipper simultaneously whilst Grove gets the money fight.

Who said Froch was a superstar? He thinks he is no doubt but who here says that?

Froch has said he is and nobody in this thread has said that, but I have been bottling up my Froch views for several days. There are plenty of people defending the superstar stoppage and I find that appalling. Groves kicked his bum in an exceptional manner. I find it awful that the British Don King is negotiating a fight with others after this.

Froch = Liar
Hearn = Liar
Froch + Hearn = Good friends

HBO please tell them to fuck off.

[erics44]

I think it sucks that they aren't trying to give Groves the rematch he deserves.

I think it's great news that Groves isn't getting the rematch. he wouldn't get a fair shake against Hearns' cash cow, That's already proven. He's a free agent, he should be looking to get the promoter who can deliver a shot at Stieglitz's WBO Title. He's next in line on their rankings after Abraham and Abraham has already been KO'd by him 6 months ago.No Guarantees that he beats him, but at least he won't get robbed.
As for Froch, I know Amir Khan has his own agenda, but one thing he said I agree with: whoever Froch fights next, he gets beat. I personally think HBO will see Froch as an easy title to get to enhance the credibility of either GGG or Chavez jr. Froch has been exposed big time!

what exactly has froch been exposed as?

Slow
Flat Footed
Susceptible to the big overhand Right
Generally easy to hit.
Inability to throw decent combinations - see flat footed
Resort to Dirty tactics when desperate (forearms , elbows, hitting on the break, etc.) - I actually think this also shows good character that he doesn't want to lose to be fair.

And the only other thing he's got going for him is an undoubted granite chin! but you don't win fights by TAKING Punches.
let's not forget that before the fight , "Groves didn't deserve to be in the same ring , would run all night and was definitely getting flattened early GUARANTEED!"

was he exposed as all these against pascal, taylor, kessler, abraham, johnson, bute?

Well actually, yes.
Pascal- before he fought Froch, what had he actually done?
Taylor- a quicker man moving up a weight who for 11 rounds and 2 mins 46secs outboxed Froch.
Kessler- 1st fight yes, 2nd fight was more about how much Kessler had deteriorated.
Abraham- blown up Middleweight who got schooled by Andre Dirrell in the fight before Froch. By the way, I notice you never mentioned Dirrell, because he outboxed Froch as well.
Johnson- he struggled against a tough old man, and Groves beat Johnson better than Froch did.
Bute- that is the one on your list I cannot really pick holes in.
My point is that whether you agree with me or not, there are question marks about all of them. I've got to say in his defence , his chin is amazing and he's never ducked anyone.

which fighters do you see as having a better record than froch?

[ono]

Froch can do what he wants. He's fought practically everyone in his division and has been the underdog several times. A good few have been fight of the year candidates. In his eyes, he won fair and square. If he wants a mega fight in Vegas against somebody like Golovkin or Chavez, as a fan, i'll be just as excited about it as i would a rematch with Groves. Groves didn't put him away after 8 rounds of domination and judging by the fact that he spent almost the entirety of round 9 hurt (there was a 45 second or so burst from Froch which had Groves clinging on before the stoppage), i'd estimate that Groves would have been lucky to get anywhere near the final bell. The stoppage was premature, but what did it delay? Froch had found a way to get to him and he had another 10 or so minutes to do so. He doesn't let people off the hook, and Groves' survival skills looked awful. It's obviously conjecture and speculation, and i do feel Foster robbed us of a definitive ending to the fight, but the way people are going on about it on here is laughable. Froch doesn't owe anyone anything. He's given us more than enough. What he does next will be 100% his choice and so it should be.

[IamInuit]

Who said Froch was a superstar? He thinks he is no doubt but who here says that?

Froch has said he is and nobody in this thread has said that, but I have been bottling up my Froch views for several days. There are plenty of people defending the superstar stoppage and I find that appalling. Groves kicked his bum in an exceptional manner. I find it awful that the British Don King is negotiating a fight with others after this.

Froch = Liar
Hearn = Liar
Froch + Hearn = Good friends

HBO please tell them to fuck off.

I hear what you are saying. Thing is Hearn and maybe Froch himself must realize after that shellacking that he could lose the big pay day if he fights him a second time. He's a product of this environment after all and their reasoning fits with this eras version of "risk and reward." He's no different then most others. Rematching is not an exact science. Timing can be crucial and economics is the engine not legacy. The decision not to do an immediate rematch when it looked warranted certainly didn't begin with Hearn and Froch. Its happened countless times. Carl is at the end of his career and if anything sustained that for him, it was last week. He probably thought he was going to wreck the kid like everyone else did and trained accordingly. In the end he may be forced to fight Groves again but he's definitely in cash out mode. Ward might just shrug and freeze him out.

[ono]

Who said Froch was a superstar? He thinks he is no doubt but who here says that?

Froch has said he is and nobody in this thread has said that, but I have been bottling up my Froch views for several days. There are plenty of people defending the superstar stoppage and I find that appalling. Groves kicked his bum in an exceptional manner. I find it awful that the British Don King is negotiating a fight with others after this.

Froch = Liar
Hearn = Liar
Froch + Hearn = Good friends

HBO please tell them to fuck off.

I hear what you are saying. Thing is Hearn and maybe Froch himself must realize after that shellacking that he could lose the big pay day if he fights him a second time. He's a product of this environment after all and their reasoning fits with this eras version of "risk and reward." He's no different then most others. Rematching is not an exact science. Timing can be crucial and economics is the engine not legacy. The decision not to do an immediate rematch when it looked warranted certainly didn't begin with Hearn and Froch. Its happened countless times. Carl is at the end of his career and if anything sustained that for him, it was last week. He probably thought he was going to wreck the kid like everyone else did and trained accordingly. In the end he may be forced to fight Groves again but he's definitely in cash out mode. Ward might just shrug and freeze him out.

Eddie Hearn is a business man. Groves will ultimately end up with Hearn, as he's the biggest promoter in the UK by a mile now, and he has a total monopoly on Sky/PPV. Groves has proved he is a big star with his pre fight performance and his in the ring performance. He has 10-12 top level fights in him. Froch has maybe another couple. Why would Hearn risk a future cash cow to save the reputation of a 36 old fighter? He wouldn't. The referee stopped the fight because of the view that he had of Groves being tagged by two powerful punches. It was premature, but it had nothing to do with Eddie Hearn wanting to protect Carl Froch. It was a judgement call made by Foster.

A couple of rounds earlier, he pulled Froch off of Groves in the corner when Groves lost his balance after punching Froch behind the head. As Groves turned and backed into the ropes, Froch levelled him and rocked his head back. Foster grabbed Froch and pulled him off him. If he was a cheat, that wouldn't have happened, and i say this because upon viewing it seems it was Groves who was the one in the wrong for punching the back of Froch's head.

This reply is probably more suited towards what Miles was saying. I realised that about half way down.

[Beanz]

This Froch superstar rubbish needs to stop. He lost this fight clearly, he lost to Ward clearly, his major wins are against chinny Bute, hands up Abraham, chinny Taylor, road horse Johnson, Kessler after he was old enough, and that is Froch for you. Calzaghe would have humiliated him, rubbed his weirdly long nose in shame, and it would have been done with, but instead Froch is supposedly in talks for a money fight after that? It's a disgrace.

Hearn and Froch need to be slapped with a kipper simultaneously whilst Grove gets the money fight.

Who said Froch was a superstar? He thinks he is no doubt but who here says that?

Brian Jacks was the ultimate superstar. I was privileged to shake his little hand but he had the power of legions in it.

[Primo Carnera]

I think it sucks that they aren't trying to give Groves the rematch he deserves.

I think it's great news that Groves isn't getting the rematch. he wouldn't get a fair shake against Hearns' cash cow, That's already proven. He's a free agent, he should be looking to get the promoter who can deliver a shot at Stieglitz's WBO Title. He's next in line on their rankings after Abraham and Abraham has already been KO'd by him 6 months ago.No Guarantees that he beats him, but at least he won't get robbed.
As for Froch, I know Amir Khan has his own agenda, but one thing he said I agree with: whoever Froch fights next, he gets beat. I personally think HBO will see Froch as an easy title to get to enhance the credibility of either GGG or Chavez jr. Froch has been exposed big time!

what exactly has froch been exposed as?

Slow
Flat Footed
Susceptible to the big overhand Right
Generally easy to hit.
Inability to throw decent combinations - see flat footed
Resort to Dirty tactics when desperate (forearms , elbows, hitting on the break, etc.) - I actually think this also shows good character that he doesn't want to lose to be fair.

And the only other thing he's got going for him is an undoubted granite chin! but you don't win fights by TAKING Punches.
let's not forget that before the fight , "Groves didn't deserve to be in the same ring , would run all night and was definitely getting flattened early GUARANTEED!"

was he exposed as all these against pascal, taylor, kessler, abraham, johnson, bute?

Well actually, yes.
Pascal- before he fought Froch, what had he actually done?
Taylor- a quicker man moving up a weight who for 11 rounds and 2 mins 46secs outboxed Froch.
Kessler- 1st fight yes, 2nd fight was more about how much Kessler had deteriorated.
Abraham- blown up Middleweight who got schooled by Andre Dirrell in the fight before Froch. By the way, I notice you never mentioned Dirrell, because he outboxed Froch as well.
Johnson- he struggled against a tough old man, and Groves beat Johnson better than Froch did.
Bute- that is the one on your list I cannot really pick holes in.
My point is that whether you agree with me or not, there are question marks about all of them. I've got to say in his defence , his chin is amazing and he's never ducked anyone.

which fighters do you see as having a better record than froch?

British past or present or world past or present? and super middle or any weight? It's a pretty open question.

[Master]

Froch needs to maximise his money and fighting in the Vegas is probably the way to go. He has very little chance against Ward and should aim for Junior and let the interest for a rematch build up against Groves even more.

[Fenster]

Why would Hearn not want to promote a rematch? He's not Froch's manager. The HBO talk was common knowledge beforehand. You think he'd rather Froch fight in the States on someone elses show? Nobody on earth knew Groves would become Froch's "next fight" before Saturday night.

Fucks sake... where's Richard Harrow.

[ykdadamaja]

Froch is still the biggest thing in British boxing. No one else comes close. Even when Haye was HW Champion, Froch still outshined. A shame he didn't get a fight with Calzaghe- not that he would have won, but it would have been a good fight to see.

But, for Groves, if a rematch happens, it happens. The real good thing about Groves is that the doors are WIDE OPEN for him for potential match-ups with all of the names associated with the Hearn/Froch/HBO matrix.

Groves has an in-road due to his performance. That controversial loss, without it being a robbery on the cards (which seems like it would have happened IF the ref didn't decide to make it easier on the judges and take the hit himself) did more for him than anything else.

He should thank Froch that Froch decided to take a chance and fight him, seeing how he trounced Degale- someone who folks thought had more pedigree and skill-sets than Groves.

Groves should come to the USA or go to Germany and get a good eliminator fight. It should be a good consolation, seeing that the Froch BIG JUMP UPWARDS didn't quite work out for him.

[erics44]

I think it sucks that they aren't trying to give Groves the rematch he deserves.

I think it's great news that Groves isn't getting the rematch. he wouldn't get a fair shake against Hearns' cash cow, That's already proven. He's a free agent, he should be looking to get the promoter who can deliver a shot at Stieglitz's WBO Title. He's next in line on their rankings after Abraham and Abraham has already been KO'd by him 6 months ago.No Guarantees that he beats him, but at least he won't get robbed.
As for Froch, I know Amir Khan has his own agenda, but one thing he said I agree with: whoever Froch fights next, he gets beat. I personally think HBO will see Froch as an easy title to get to enhance the credibility of either GGG or Chavez jr. Froch has been exposed big time!

what exactly has froch been exposed as?

Slow
Flat Footed
Susceptible to the big overhand Right
Generally easy to hit.
Inability to throw decent combinations - see flat footed
Resort to Dirty tactics when desperate (forearms , elbows, hitting on the break, etc.) - I actually think this also shows good character that he doesn't want to lose to be fair.

And the only other thing he's got going for him is an undoubted granite chin! but you don't win fights by TAKING Punches.
let's not forget that before the fight , "Groves didn't deserve to be in the same ring , would run all night and was definitely getting flattened early GUARANTEED!"

was he exposed as all these against pascal, taylor, kessler, abraham, johnson, bute?

Well actually, yes.
Pascal- before he fought Froch, what had he actually done?
Taylor- a quicker man moving up a weight who for 11 rounds and 2 mins 46secs outboxed Froch.
Kessler- 1st fight yes, 2nd fight was more about how much Kessler had deteriorated.
Abraham- blown up Middleweight who got schooled by Andre Dirrell in the fight before Froch. By the way, I notice you never mentioned Dirrell, because he outboxed Froch as well.
Johnson- he struggled against a tough old man, and Groves beat Johnson better than Froch did.
Bute- that is the one on your list I cannot really pick holes in.
My point is that whether you agree with me or not, there are question marks about all of them. I've got to say in his defence , his chin is amazing and he's never ducked anyone.

which fighters do you see as having a better record than froch?

British past or present or world past or present? and super middle or any weight? It's a pretty open question.

i like it that wy, you can chose anyone anywhere anytime, the floor is yours

[Memphis]

Like him or not as a bloke there isn't one person on this site a few weeks/months back who wasn't singing Carl Froch's praises for what he's done over the last 5 years or so. People were falling over themselves to say how impressive and refreshing its been to have someone fight the best available over a sustained period of time. Froch probably got a little extra credit for seeing it through on toughness more than skill, we tend to like that on the whole.


Now somehow he's some sort of disgrace and he's going to duck this and swerve that. Utterly laughable and pathetic.


Miles your I've been bottling it up comment hit the nail right on the head. The opportunity arises to call someone a cunt and its pounced upon, It was probably made all the worse by Froch for doing what he's been doing for years thus denying you, and others the opportunity.

[Primo Carnera]

I think it sucks that they aren't trying to give Groves the rematch he deserves.

I think it's great news that Groves isn't getting the rematch. he wouldn't get a fair shake against Hearns' cash cow, That's already proven. He's a free agent, he should be looking to get the promoter who can deliver a shot at Stieglitz's WBO Title. He's next in line on their rankings after Abraham and Abraham has already been KO'd by him 6 months ago.No Guarantees that he beats him, but at least he won't get robbed.
As for Froch, I know Amir Khan has his own agenda, but one thing he said I agree with: whoever Froch fights next, he gets beat. I personally think HBO will see Froch as an easy title to get to enhance the credibility of either GGG or Chavez jr. Froch has been exposed big time!

what exactly has froch been exposed as?

Slow
Flat Footed
Susceptible to the big overhand Right
Generally easy to hit.
Inability to throw decent combinations - see flat footed
Resort to Dirty tactics when desperate (forearms , elbows, hitting on the break, etc.) - I actually think this also shows good character that he doesn't want to lose to be fair.

And the only other thing he's got going for him is an undoubted granite chin! but you don't win fights by TAKING Punches.
let's not forget that before the fight , "Groves didn't deserve to be in the same ring , would run all night and was definitely getting flattened early GUARANTEED!"

was he exposed as all these against pascal, taylor, kessler, abraham, johnson, bute?

Well actually, yes.
Pascal- before he fought Froch, what had he actually done?
Taylor- a quicker man moving up a weight who for 11 rounds and 2 mins 46secs outboxed Froch.
Kessler- 1st fight yes, 2nd fight was more about how much Kessler had deteriorated.
Abraham- blown up Middleweight who got schooled by Andre Dirrell in the fight before Froch. By the way, I notice you never mentioned Dirrell, because he outboxed Froch as well.
Johnson- he struggled against a tough old man, and Groves beat Johnson better than Froch did.
Bute- that is the one on your list I cannot really pick holes in.
My point is that whether you agree with me or not, there are question marks about all of them. I've got to say in his defence , his chin is amazing and he's never ducked anyone.

which fighters do you see as having a better record than froch?

British past or present or world past or present? and super middle or any weight? It's a pretty open question.

i like it that wy, you can chose anyone anywhere anytime, the floor is yours

Well I don't know what your point is , but I'll keep it brief and off the top of my head because I'm busy. Here goes.

Ward, Hatton, Calzaghe, Haye , Chavez, Mayweather , Martinez , Golovkin , Collins, Eubank , Benn, Roy Jones , Canelo, Both Klits, Lennox Lewis , if you give me a couple of days, I'll come up with a thousand others as well. With the exception of Canelo and the Klits , I'm trying to keep it relevant to him and his "Legacy"