A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!

[IamInuit]

Yet another fishing expedition. As much as some of us may overestimate the written word of boxing history lacking in film evidence to prove so also do many underestimate fighters and eras past and the incredible pace they had to contend with. Just as is the case with much of history, the cameras were not around. That in and of itself is not proof that historians are wrong. Nothing will be solved in this thread anymore then it did in all those threads that came before it on the same subject matter. W/o a time machine its futile

[Dark Lord Al]

Yet another fishing expedition. As much as some of us may overestimate the written word of boxing history lacking in film evidence to prove so also do many underestimate fighters and eras past and the incredible pace they had to contend with. Just as is the case with much of history, the cameras were not around. That in and of itself is not proof that historians are wrong. Nothing will be solved in this thread anymore then it did in all those threads that came before it on the same subject matter. W/o a time machine its futile

We can only hope Stewie Griffin can rebuild his time machine so we can find out who are the best boxers and we can bring back Brian.
Until then all hope is lost.

[Beanflicker]

Yet another fishing expedition. As much as some of us may overestimate the written word of boxing history lacking in film evidence to prove so also do many underestimate fighters and eras past and the incredible pace they had to contend with. Just as is the case with much of history, the cameras were not around. That in and of itself is not proof that historians are wrong. Nothing will be solved in this thread anymore then it did in all those threads that came before it on the same subject matter. W/o a time machine its futile

My problem is not so much with what can or can't be proven, but with the fallacies that boxing fans use regarding the old timers and the inconsistent criteria that is used to judge old and modern fighters.

We are completely unrelenting in our demands for fighters to constantly prove their worth to us. We don't care about potential, or what the experts say, we only care about seeing results.

...but with the old timers, we have no problem judging a guy purely on newspaper clippings. "BENNY LEONARD DAZZLES IN IMPRESSIVE UNANIMOUS DECISION WIN" - Nice! I bet he'd whip Sweetpea's ass!

People also seem to assume more fights = better fighter, which is idiotic. In 200 of SRR's fights, how many of those were against actual tough competiton? I would bet the number is extremely low. How much can you really learn beating up a stiff in some smokey banquet hall? Floyd could fight a bum every 2 weeks and run his record up to 200-0 if he wanted to. Would people be impressed?

[Master]

Where was part 1 - the heavyweights? you lost that and now you start this which is even more stupid.

SRR would batter the living shit out of Floyd as would Hearns and Leonard. Get over yourself.

[SugarBoxing]

This thread supports the observation that all glory of men will be passing away sooner or later
No matter how good, famous, rich, etc you were, someday it all will de doubted and then forgotten

[Max Power]

Where was part 1 - the heavyweights? you lost that and now you start this which is even more stupid.

SRR would batter the living shit out of Floyd as would Hearns and Leonard. Get over yourself.

To the best of my knowledge I left no stone unturned there, answered to every counter point and found virtually no plausible resistance worth anything more than insults. I wouldn't call that losing.

How does SRR batter the living shit out of someone... Who simply would not be there..

To put it another way... AS IF! SRR could batter the living shit out of Mayweather! AS IF!

Hearns and Leonard, I tip Mayweather personally but I will mind my P's and Q's a little more on that because for me the outcome there is not so clear. I like both fighters and think they are entirely capable. But I can SEE the gap for SRR and Mayweather in the skills, in the bodies and the type of fighting boxing was then and now and I know that it would not be nearly enough to compete with $$$.

[Max Power]

And who would pay Floyd to see that shit?

For all this talk about how fighting was their trade back then, they had to box to make a dollar etc.- well that is all true, I never said these guys weren't tough and I never said these guys didn't have it tougher in their day.. But today, with ever present media and the ridiculous standard that fighters are held to, fans underestimate the enormous pressure that the boxers are under to perform.

If a boxers chooses to face a fighter that is even somewhat considered a bum or a mismatch the media is on it, the forums are on it, they are openly and constantly ridiculed at every step. If they suffer even 1 loss, struggle or minor upset their whole career may be called into question. The past warriors did not have to contend with this.

interesting read, though I would ask for images or animated gifs to back it up
I could help you with that, I mean making gifs and such , if you'd be interested in blogging at my website

@NVSemin
I might be Could I take a look at your website mate??

@greynotsoold

I was a child of the 80's and a teenager in the 90's and so it's true I have no special connection to the golden age fighters. I have boxed Amatuer most of my life and am a qualified fitness instructor. I am a big fan and have watched endless fights and enjoy analysis.

As for your statement, thinking SRR would force Mayweather to fight and hence be stopped, that has been the idea for most all of Mayweathers opponents. These opponents look fantastic against their other opponents and whilst training for the Mayweather fight. Mayweather bummifies his opponents. I think, and this is just my observations here so only my opinion, that SRR would find mostly air, become frustrated... And punch more and more air. But I could just be crazy...

Sorry I haven't the inclination to find a nice clip of May punching his opponents like the other bloke posted but there is many

[SugarBoxing]

@NVSemin
I might be Could I take a look at your website mate??

PM sent

[greynotsoold]

And who would pay Floyd to see that shit?

For all this talk about how fighting was their trade back then, they had to box to make a dollar etc.- well that is all true, I never said these guys weren't tough and I never said these guys didn't have it tougher in their day.. But today, with ever present media and the ridiculous standard that fighters are held to, fans underestimate the enormous pressure that the boxers are under to perform.

If a boxers chooses to face a fighter that is even somewhat considered a bum or a mismatch the media is on it, the forums are on it, they are openly and constantly ridiculed at every step. If they suffer even 1 loss, struggle or minor upset their whole career may be called into question. The past warriors did not have to contend with this.

interesting read, though I would ask for images or animated gifs to back it up
I could help you with that, I mean making gifs and such , if you'd be interested in blogging at my website

@NVSemin
I might be Could I take a look at your website mate??

@greynotsoold

I was a child of the 80's and a teenager in the 90's and so it's true I have no special connection to the golden age fighters. I have boxed Amatuer most of my life and am a qualified fitness instructor. I am a big fan and have watched endless fights and enjoy analysis.

As for your statement, thinking SRR would force Mayweather to fight and hence be stopped, that has been the idea for most all of Mayweathers opponents. These opponents look fantastic against their other opponents and whilst training for the Mayweather fight. Mayweather bummifies his opponents. I think, and this is just my observations here so only my opinion, that SRR would find mostly air, become frustrated... And punch more and more air. But I could just be crazy...

Sorry I haven't the inclination to find a nice clip of May punching his opponents like the other bloke posted but there is many

Fair enough...I don't think that Robinson would be 'bummified' (and that is a good word and I will someday use it and claim to have invented it) by anything that Mayweather could throw at him. If you watch Robinson, he has, first of all,a significant height and reach advantage over Mayweather. Second, he throws a right hand to the body that would work well against Mayweather.
He would not let Floyd control the tempo and the pacing of the fight. That is the how/why of making mayweather fight. See, in between the easy, pay day fights, while he was padding his record, Robinson fought Mandell and Angot and Zivic and Jackie Wilson and artie levine and Tommy Bell. He fought a lot of very good fighters.
Canelo? he fought...? Of course he didn't know how to fight Floyd.

[Silkeyjoe]

SRR is the best fighter ever. His speed and height advantage would be enough to overcome Mayweather. Mayweather is class but he handpicks fighters that dont have the tools to beat him. Canelo, Ortiz, Guerrero are all slow one dimensional fighters. Has Mayweather ever fought an all time great in their prime?

[Max Power]

SRR is not as fast as Mayweather. His handspeed may be comparable but his timing and accuracy is not as sharp and his technique is far worse. He is taller though, but not so much taller that it will make a huge difference.

"Jake" LaMotta was nothing less than what you described for Money's opponents, he was just aggressive and strong, a bit like young Alvarez. Yet Money did what he was supposed to do to these guys.. Completely dominated them. Whilst SRR always had a tough time with LaMotta. That's because he was born about 50 years too early to learn how to keep a raging bull at bay!

[Master]

SRR at welterweight was fighting a middleweight in La Motta.

SRR could punch a lot harder than Floyd everything else would be the relatively the same which is why I see Leonard and Hearns beating him also.

[greynotsoold]

SRR is not as fast as Mayweather. His handspeed may be comparable but his timing and accuracy is not as sharp and his technique is far worse. He is taller though, but not so much taller that it will make a huge difference.

"Jake" LaMotta was nothing less than what you described for Money's opponents, he was just aggressive and strong, a bit like young Alvarez. Yet Money did what he was supposed to do to these guys.. Completely dominated them. Whilst SRR always had a tough time with LaMotta. That's because he was born about 50 years too early to learn how to keep a raging bull at bay!

Comparing LaMotta to Alvarez? Goodness. LaMotta fought guys like Bert Lytell, Lloyd marshall, Holman Williams and Teddy yarosz. Have you eard of the "Black Murderer's Row"? The black fighters everybody avoided? LaMotta fought and beat them all.
I don't know what you see when you watch a fight, what you have been taught or learned, but to compare Alvarez to La Motta, I don't understand it.