London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians

[Beanz]

For the record both my parents were born in the UK. As were my both my Mothers parents. My fathers Parents were Polish on his Dad's side and Romany Gypsy (via Ireland) on his Mothers side. It is quite ludicrous that Miles and Brockton supposedly the champions of the oppressed have decided that the legal migration of people into a country in which neither of them live is of such importance that they have to express outrage and horror at the very thought of it. There is no need for a character assassination on my part when they expose their own prejudices in such a public way. The Roma, long persecuted, came originally from India and are not the same ethnic group as Romanians. That is what this whole debate is really about.

Miles your assertion that "Most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world" shows exactly how blinkered, arrogant and racist you are.

[brocktonblockbust]

in Istanbul, the Gypsies are a HUGE problem. We lived there 13 months while I was teaching at a language institute, and every morning and every night we came and went from our apartment there were literally 11 little gypsy kids sitting along the curb with their gypsy mother with ALL ELEVEN OF THEM sticking their hands out "Please Mister, can you give us some rice, some money, some bread?" for 13 months every single fucking day, and at night they would run around the neighborhood throwing stones at our windows because we never gave them anything. 2 blocks away they have ruined the once-beautiful ocean front beach area, sleeping in cardboard boxes and draping rugs over low tree branches, sleeping in the park along the ocean, shitting and pissing and fucking right there --- they have ruined the whole public park, police are constantly raiding their fucking cardboard homes and arresting them, only to have the same gypsies re-enter the park a month later, building fires in the ground, barbecuing, fucking, shitting and pissing, THEYHAVE STUNK UP THE WHOLE PARK which strecthes 150 meters along Sultanahmet near the Blue Mosque. Police are struggling every night with these scumbags. DEPORT THE DIRTY MOTHERFUCKING BEGGARS, LAZY FUCKS.

[Beanz]

in Istanbul, the Gypsies are a HUGE problem. We lived there 13 months while I was teaching at a language institute, and every morning and every night we came and went from our apartment there were literally 11 little gypsy kids sitting along the curb with their gypsy mother with ALL ELEVEN OF THEM sticking their hands out "Please Mister, can you give us some rice, some money, some bread?" for 13 months every single fucking day, and at night they would run around the neighborhood throwing stones at our windows because we never gave them anything. 2 blocks away they have ruined the once-beautiful ocean front beach area, sleeping in cardboard boxes and draping rugs over low tree branches, sleeping in the park along the ocean, shitting and pissing and fucking right there --- they have ruined the whole public park, police are constantly raiding their fucking cardboard homes and arresting them, only to have the same gypsies re-enter the park a month later, building fires in the ground, barbecuing, fucking, shitting and pissing, THEYHAVE STUNK UP THE WHOLE PARK which strecthes 150 meters along Sultanahmet near the Blue Mosque. Police are struggling every night with these scumbags. DEPORT THE DIRTY MOTHERFUCKING BEGGARS, LAZY FUCKS.

No comment.

[brocktonblockbust]

in Istanbul, the Gypsies are a HUGE problem. We lived there 13 months while I was teaching at a language institute, and every morning and every night we came and went from our apartment there were literally 11 little gypsy kids sitting along the curb with their gypsy mother with ALL ELEVEN OF THEM sticking their hands out "Please Mister, can you give us some rice, some money, some bread?" for 13 months every single fucking day, and at night they would run around the neighborhood throwing stones at our windows because we never gave them anything. 2 blocks away they have ruined the once-beautiful ocean front beach area, sleeping in cardboard boxes and draping rugs over low tree branches, sleeping in the park along the ocean, shitting and pissing and fucking right there --- they have ruined the whole public park, police are constantly raiding their fucking cardboard homes and arresting them, only to have the same gypsies re-enter the park a month later, building fires in the ground, barbecuing, fucking, shitting and pissing, THEYHAVE STUNK UP THE WHOLE PARK which strecthes 150 meters along Sultanahmet near the Blue Mosque. Police are struggling every night with these scumbags. DEPORT THE DIRTY MOTHERFUCKING BEGGARS, LAZY FUCKS.

No comment.

OK you go stroll through the park, smell the shit.

[Gandalf]

For the record both my parents were born in the UK. As were my both my Mothers parents. My fathers Parents were Polish on his Dad's side and Romany Gypsy (via Ireland) on his Mothers side. It is quite ludicrous that Miles and Brockton supposedly the champions of the oppressed have decided that the legal migration of people into a country in which neither of them live is of such importance that they have to express outrage and horror at the very thought of it. There is no need for a character assassination on my part when they expose their own prejudices in such a public way. The Roma, long persecuted, came originally from India and are not the same ethnic group as Romanians. That is what this whole debate is really about.

Miles your assertion that "Most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world" shows exactly how blinkered, arrogant and racist you are.

How is that comment blinkered, arrogant, and racist? All you have are ad hominem personal attacks and admittedly I did a little in return. It's a massive deflection to keep on saying I am racist, that I am blinkered etc. If I were to make that same statement about ordinary English people you wouldn't batter an eyelid. Something like 30% of British people go to University and fewer go on to study at Post Graduate level. It is just a fact that I am relatively well educated. You seem to have some bee in your bonnet about that, and it makes me arrogant and blinkered? Most of those coming from overseas are not exactly Phd holders, which really is the only way to be more educated than I am. And good on those that are, as I have said skilled immigrants are needed in any economy. It is the rest that I seriously question and the rest is the vast majority.

I have a friend back home who works in an egg factory. He and his English friend are the last standing as the rest are all from Poland. Is he blinkered? My other friend says that in Edinburgh a taxi driver is more likely to be foreign than a native Scot. Is he just being arrogant? Honestly, where do you get off with your ridiculous statements. I am such a racist that the few people I do interact with in life are all from a different country to me. I get called a blinkered, racist everyday. You are surely having a laugh.

Your last long post was whining on and on about Roma discrimination, but what does that have to do with being allowed to settle into the UK whenever they like? The Poles can all come, the Romanians can all come. But is it the responsibility of the UK to house them, to find them work, to nurse them when they are sick? How, when and why did this ever become the defacto attitude to have? I brought up this discussion earlier with someone at work and asked 'How would Koreans feel if 5 million foreigners were to settle here within just 10 years?". The response was as it should be, a negative dismissal. I said that this was exactly what had happened in England. Cue gobsmacked expression.

My earlier points all stand. Of course a foreign worker will take shit that an English worker won't if they are earning 3-4 times the minimum wage of their home countries. The English person can't save a hoot on the low paying jobs, whilst the Pole will send money home and after a decade or so have enough to buy a house and then they are set. The English person doesn't have anything to hope for as property is never going to happen and you will always be paycheck to paycheck. It is permanent decline and of course he could move to Poland and fall even further behind. It is a terrible and unfair comparison to make to say that Poles work harder. Of course they would and would tolerate more as it makes sense financially. The English person might as well give up.

We have nation states and when poor countries are allowed to flock to countries with better paying jobs, then standards decline for ordinary people in the richer country. Yes, it helps small businesses who want cheap labour, but there is more to life than that. Growth in an economy is really about stock markets, which really grow from abusing labour. We shouldn't always see growth as a positive when it comes from the division and abuse of domestic labour.

[Beanz]

There are a higher proportion of people with degrees in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic than the UK. The UK has been overtaken by Poland , Portugal, The Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden the Czech Republic and Denmark. So your sweeping generalisation that most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world is just as inherently racist as saying the Palestinians are all terrorists. You have a friend back home ? what kind of intellectual weight is that supposed to carry ? You are extremely out of touch with the UK and just make Krap up. There are plenty of people working and buying property who are not immigrants but you have to look at the negative side of everything. Growth is not a positive unless Miles says it is

[Gandalf]

There are a higher proportion of people with degrees in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic than the UK. The UK has been overtaken by Poland , Portugal, The Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden the Czech Republic and Denmark. So your sweeping generalisation that most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world is just as inherently racist as saying the Palestinians are all terrorists. You have a friend back home ? what kind of intellectual weight is that supposed to carry ? You are extremely out of touch with the UK and just make Krap up. There are plenty of people working and buying property who are not immigrants but you have to look at the negative side of everything. Growth is not a positive unless Miles says it is

Yes, then factor in the quality of the Universities. I could obtain a PhD in Thailand at a relatively cheap cost, but what is the value of that degree? What does it really mean? I would have a hard time being taken seriously at many Universities around the world. Ah, but that is me being a snob, an elitist!

You are also warping what I say. The vast majority of Poles coming to work in menial jobs, such as the egg factory or to drive taxis are not intellectuals. They are ordinary people coming to a country, not based on academic credentials, but an open labour market. If they were intellectuals with such vast educational capabilities, they would be working in Universities around the world. Instead, they are opening shops, working in factories, driving cabs etc. When you talk of Polish doctors though, are we really saying that Britain cannot produce effective doctors? That Britain cannot produce lawyers? That Britain cannot produce tattoo artists?

'I have a friend back home' is a direct example. I made two of them. I know what is going on in the UK. I prowl, I look around, I see things when I visit. I read media of all kinds daily. I bathe myself in the stuff. I have friends and family living there, I communicate. The whole 'you have lost touch' nonsense is just that. Utter nonsense. I am not walking down the high street everyday no, but I'm observing from a branch up above.

I am looking at the negative because it is more realistic than saying 'Everything is fine, immigration is all hunky dory, property bubbles are splendid, outrageous bills are quaint, and the police state is blooming marvelous'. I won't bury my head in the sand, or put myself up on a cross singing 'always look on the bright side of life'. It's not realistic.

My point of view is simply that Britain is full. It is full. There isn't enough housing. Housing is unnaffordable. It goes up 3 times faster than wages every year. It is unnaffordable for young people especially. 5 million extras means more competition and 30 year olds living with mother. It's not tenable.

[brocktonblockbust]

@Greenbeanz mate you are taking it too far. Surely you know I dont want to gas anybody mate. I just dont like the Gypsies in Istanbul for what they are doing. I dont know if they are Bulgarian or Romanian or Roma, I did not ask them, but they are referred to by everyone and in the newspapers there as gypsies, and most of them have emigrated from eastern europe. So that is all Im saying. Now let's be calm. I dont watch Alex Jones but twice or thrice a year, and stick to his financial and economic stuff only in limited little bursts. Ben Bernanke, the Fed, martial law, etc.... Nigel Farage seems a decent man to me, well educated and makes alot of sense really.

[Gandalf]

There are a higher proportion of people with degrees in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic than the UK. The UK has been overtaken by Poland , Portugal, The Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden the Czech Republic and Denmark. So your sweeping generalisation that most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world is just as inherently racist as saying the Palestinians are all terrorists. You have a friend back home ? what kind of intellectual weight is that supposed to carry ? You are extremely out of touch with the UK and just make Krap up. There are plenty of people working and buying property who are not immigrants but you have to look at the negative side of everything. Growth is not a positive unless Miles says it is

No, it isn't. A basic example is CNN and it's obsession with Dow Jones. Less than a single percent of Americans own shares directly. Only about 0.01% of the population controls most of those shares. Now, apparently the American economy is growing and Dow Jones is reaching all time highs! Well, it has come at the expense of the middle America and working class America who really haven't been growing. In that sense, growth is definitely a negative.

Over the past 30 years the Britain has been growing by cutting wages, erasing unions and encouraging people to live beyond their means. Again, the growth was a negative. People should have savings and be in control of their own destinies. The majority are not. It is a negative.

It is common sense, but you would obviously spin it.