Sam Peter: Anybody?

[erics44]

Clinching is a part of boxing. When was the last time you saw ANYONE get DQed or even have a point taken away for clinching? The only time that happens is when guys refuse to break when the ref asks them to break (something Wlad never does). It's become a legit technique in boxing, something a lot of the greatest of the great fighters (Ali, Bhop, Floyd, ect) have utilized to great success.

You still haven't addressed Ali: do you feel Ali's legacy would not be near what it is if he wasn't allowed to hold? Because he would tie guys up on the inside in much the same way Wlad does. Was he also the benefactor of corrupt officials who let him "cheat"? If you don't think so, that right there shows you are inconsistent with your views and therefore have no credibility in this matter.

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

[Beanflicker]

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

You've undermined your own credibility by freely admitting that you are a hater. That was the word you chose to use.

There's no emotional outburst on my part. You've been backed into a corner and you're looking for a way out.

[erics44]

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

You've undermined your own credibility by freely admitting that you are a hater. That was the word you chose to use.

There's no emotional outburst on my part. You've been backed into a corner and you're looking for a way out.

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

[Beanflicker]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

[erics44]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

[Beanflicker]

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.

[Beanflicker]

I'm not asking you to change your opinion on Wlad, I'm just asking you to grow a pair of nuts and call out Muhammad Ali because he did the exact same shit.

[erics44]

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.

you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know