Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

[Mr140]

Listen most of the guys were over 200 pounds that not cw and i don't think weighing 230 makes your chin way better cant really buff up your chin. If that was true then Lewis and Wlad would not have been knocked that fuck out like they were man weight 210 to 220 with a well placed punch can end things.

[powerpuncher]

wlad has a better chin than ali? maxpower better quit while hes behind. your crazy claims are getting more insane by the post.

[Max Power]

wlad has a better chin than ali? maxpower better quit while hes behind. your crazy claims are getting more insane by the post.

But I'm not behind. I just made a common sense observation, that a massive square jawed boxer who has only been cold KO'd just once legitimately (in which there was a sandwich headbutt and he still finished on his feet after getting up several times) against the hardest punching division in history over 65 fights has a harder chin than a blown up CW with a pencil neck.

One of these guys was dropped by a 185lb boxer, one of them was not.

One of them faced and tasted power punchers from the career average of 235lbs with solid records.

And the other faced and tasted the power from career average of 200lbs with bummy records.

I can give examples where Wlad was whacked hard and either did not drop (Chag) or got up to win (Peter). Where are the analogues of this for Ali?

The correct description I think is that Ali had a great chin FOR HIS ERA, but would today be knocked out readily.

Wladimir today has a questionable chin but back in Ali's era would have been virtually indestructible.

[powerpuncher]

nope. you have never made a common sense post. your only argument is that wlad is better because he is better. i have already told you that there have been big HWs in the past but you call them oafs. yet if i call big HWs today oafs then you just say that im wrong. for example, joe louis fought abe simon (6'4), primo carnera (6'6), and buddy baer (6'6) and they were all modern HW weight. louis knocked them all out. but again, you just say that they are oafs because you have watched them fight but corrie sanders, who is actually smaller than all 3 of those guys, is faster than ali, and hits like a truck and we know this because he knocked out wlad so he must be really good even though he wasnt even thought to be a threat to wlad when they fought because sanders was viewed as an easy fight.

thats your common sense.

[Max Power]

nope. you have never made a common sense post. your only argument is that wlad is better because he is better. i have already told you that there have been big HWs in the past but you call them oafs. yet if i call big HWs today oafs then you just say that im wrong. for example, joe louis fought abe simon (6'4), primo carnera (6'6), and buddy baer (6'6) and they were all modern HW weight. louis knocked them all out. but again, you just say that they are oafs because you have watched them fight but corrie sanders, who is actually smaller than all 3 of those guys, is faster than ali, and hits like a truck and we know this because he knocked out wlad so he must be really good even though he wasnt even thought to be a threat to wlad when they fought because sanders was viewed as an easy fight.

thats your common sense.

s
Are you saying Sanders and Wlad were at the level of Louis's big opponents?

Because if that's what your reducing yourself to upholding then you might as well admit you are beaten.

[Mr140]

Well Since Ali was never even knocked out you really have nothing Max just a opinion which really is not that great because there is no facts to it. So what Ali was dropped a few times but never was iced and he was the size of Holyfeild another man that was never iced. Ali was about as tall as Sanders and weighed in between 215 and 225 which is not far off the people today. Wald been dropped more then any Heavyweight champion in history I believe. He lost to good top 10 contender in Sanders, a Journeyman Purrity and Brewster who was out boxed by guys Ali's size with shit records before knocking Wald the fuck out. I just think your nut hugging dude not even saying Ali would not lose fights but he has great chance with anyone yet again Mercer fucking out boxed Lewis i thing Ali can do the same.

[Max Power]

Look man, Ali was an inch taller than Holyfield and an inch shorter than Sanders. But he had neither the chin of Holyfield or the punch of Sanders (or the chin either).

Ali was at premium 212lbs. Anything you try to rate Ali above that rate much is a blown up version (i.e. he was fat and unathletic). Holyfield by comparison was in FACT 215-220lbs of solid muscle not a scrap of fart and supremely conditioned.

Incredible, you are trying to pass off one of the laziest trained boxers at those weights you extrapolate for him, even his own trainer made statements about the slovenliness of Ali, as the same size as Holyfield or natural HW's!

Now I know Holyfield is artificially pumped up to that weight. Were we discussing ethics here, sure I would agree with you, Holy should be a cruiser. But by todays standards, so should Ali!

You are wrong, Toney stopped Holyfield, Bowe knocked Holyfield out, testament to the power of one of the technical giants of the modern era.

And Ali was stopped by Holmes, a much superior boxer than Ali anyway!

Sure it was end of career. And you can say he was never KO'd any other and that makes him the best chin.

So I suppose by that logic then Floyd Mayweather has the hardest chin of all time too then right? Cause he was never KO'd.

Or for HW's I guess Marciano would also survive modern HW because he was never even beaten let alone KO'd?

You would like that!

But wait, then you also have to admit Vitali Klitschko and Nikolay Valuev to that magical un-KOable list too then because neither were they!

You see where we're headed? Obviously the POWER of punches across the era in question is a very important factor in remaining un-KOed.

[Max Power]

Listen most of the guys were over 200 pounds that not cw and i don't think weighing 230 makes your chin way better cant really buff up your chin. If that was true then Lewis and Wlad would not have been knocked that fuck out like they were man weight 210 to 220 with a well placed punch can end things.

Look I'm not saying that being very heavy automatically confers iron chin and power punching, of course that is not always the case. Valuev was not the hardest hitter, and Wlad definitely doesn't have the hardest chin. Conversely Tyson was a hard hitter and Holyfield did have an iron chin.

The point is though is that I'm not stating these "laws of boxing" if you will for individual circumstances, I am stating them as general principles that can be applied to all opponents across a boxers career. That the heftier the opponents are, the harder they hit and the harder the punch they can take! That is statistically and reasonably obvious!

Yeah sure I'm not denying that a 210-220lbs guy could KO a big man. Tyson obviously could.

Frazier and Ali did not. Shavers never did unless the opponent was either Bummy, or a glass jaw named Ken Norton.

McCall, Rahman and Sanders were the only cold KO's of Wlad and Lenny (Puritty was a gas and Brewster was an illness), and all 3 of them involved cracker punches the likes of which Ali never took or never could deliver.

Shavers might have produced a punch somewhere approaching the power of McCall (although I would argue otherwise) but he could never have delivered it on Wlad or Lenny.

One thing I want you to understand is that those old school "HW's" that weighed 200-210lbs, were what we would today consider CW's. Today's CW's undergo an artificial dehydration days before the fight to make weight and often put on as much as 15lbs before the actual fight.

So when I say that a CW fighter today would have been considered a HW back in Ali's day for instance, they in fact ARE real HW's at fight time even by todays standard!