Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

[Max Power]

Sam Peter was more dangerous than Frazier? I don't even know where to begin with that. I just question your mental capacity.

Joe Frazier's career at a glance..
Frazier was blind on left eye his entire professional career (after a training accident 1964). He would pass medical exams by covering his left eye and then switch his arm to cover his left eye AGAIN. Such a handicap as Frazier wouldn't be allowed to box nowadays.
Height: 5'11'.5" (BOTTOM-2 of Wladimir Klitschko's opponents)
Started as a cruiser 197 lbs. Median weight 204 lbs. Peter NOT ONCE fought anyone as light as that.
Median weight of Frazier's KO'victim: 197 lbs (cruiser)
Career record (all fights): 32-4 (not too impressive)
Career record real heavyweight fights 200×2 lbs: 13-4 (bum)
Frazier never fought an opponent a hefty as Wlad's AVERAGE opponent.
That would be Frazier's real experience compared to Samuel Peter. Every opponent Samuel Peter faced with such little experience he KO'd within early rounds.
Frazier ducked/never fought some of the better+hard punching boxers of his time like Sonny Liston, Mac Foster, Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Cleveland Williams. Peter fought both Klitschko's and other of the most hard punching division of all time.
The only time Frazier met a guy of comparable quality to a modern boxer he got brutally annihilated 2ce.

Yeah I think I can safely say that Samuel Peter is just a little bit more dangerous than Frazier.

A seemingly harsh but highly accurate desciption of Frazier would be an out of shape, chinny, featherfisted, handicapped punch bag bum dwarf with a very limited style.

The ONLY reason that Frazier is pumped up to be anything other today is because the OTNB community KNOWS that if it admits Frazier is no match for a modern boxer, then it is virtually conceding that Ali and the rest of the Golden Age is of lesser calibre as well. That's why the fantasy of Frazier must be upheld because he is a pillar for the whole charade because he beat the greatest!

[Bo-Bo24]

A seemingly harsh but highly accurate desciption of Frazier would be an out of shape, chinny, featherfisted, handicapped punch bag bum dwarf with a very limited style.

You crazy. Pass whatever your smoking to me, its a friday night in England and Im here reading this drivel.

[mrbig1]

Guys, Joe Frazier was a non stop punching machine. Sam peter was a fat pig. In fact I thought James Toney a lazy big fat MW beat him the first fight.

[Max Power]

Yeah sure, Joe Frazier had a much higher punch output than Peter.

Just saying the Frazier that Ali fought was soft bellied whereas the Peter that Wlad fought was 6-packed!
As for the punch output, a hundred of those punches could not do as much damage as just 1 big punch from Sam Peter!

Of course Frazier is gonna have a higher output than Peter, Peter outweighs Frazier by 40 fucking lbs!!

Frazier was not what we would today describe as a HW!!!

Another way to look at it is that Peter is an example of a "Super-Frazier".

Take Frazier, put him n steroids for a few years and beef him up to 240, give him a big punch and a hard chin...

There's Samuel Peter!!

[Max Power]

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/featur...hammad-ali.jpg

You can see in the image above that Joe and Muhammad are not HW's by modern standards. They are chubbed up CW's. Today when we have CW's step up to HW they are usually "muscled up" and "highly athletic" at the new weight as opposed to just naturally increasing to that weight like Joe and Muhammad by virtue of getting older and fatter. If you make Joe and Muhammad train hard enough and lean up enough to make weight like current CW's do, they fit well into the 200lb limit.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s2KIJbhUZ2...weigh+in+4.jpg

I could not find one of Wladimir standing next to Peter but you all know that Wlad is even more ripped than Vitali. It is clear from viewing these 2 guys that both Vitali AND Peter are of a far higher calibre than Joe or Muhammad, about 2 or 3 weight ranges above!!

And leaner! Both Klits and Samuel are sporting the outline of what appears to be not just a 6-pack, but one with very large, strong abdominal muscles.

Yes I can certainly see what your talking about. Peter looks morbidly obese in this image! LOL

Your failing gentlemen!

The fact is that today, the champions are muscled up, lean and 6-packed and SOME of their opponents are fat.

In the "Golden Era"... The CHAMPIONS themselves were fat!

[mrbig1]

The only six pack Sam Peter has is his beer belly. Look, I'll say it again you can not compare one era vs another. As I said before a high school kid today can beat Jesse Owens time with ease. Does that mean Jesse Owens was not great? Joe Frazier in his prime was about 205. With todays diet and training Joe would be about 230. The question is could Sam Peter beat a 230 pound Joe Frazier? If James Toney could make Sam Peter look foolish at times. What does that say about Sam Peter? Ali fought in a very tough era in which there were skilled fighters. Ok, Joe Frazier beat Ali in there first fight. People forget Ali hasn't fought in 3 and a half years. True he did has 2 tune up fights. The time he fought Quarry to the Frazier fight was 5 months. Just not enough time to get back in the swing of things. I lived in both eras. Believe me the talent level has dropped way off. To me, in my life time this is the worst era for HW boxing I've ever seen. I'm not saying all of boxing just the HWs.

[Max Power]

But you just did compare one era versus another with this thread. The title of the thread was is this the worst HW era of all time. And the answer is that it is among the best in terms of skill level, effectiveness and overall talent of the fighters.

It's 2014 now and the eras your prmoting were 40-50 years ago and beyond. How could it be otherwise??

But I have seen those old fights and you can see clearly that they were smaller. You can see clearly that they were not as athletic as todays fighters. You can see clearly that they were not skilled fighters.

Fuck me, George Foreman did not even know how to box! Muhammad Ali barely knew how to box properly either and Joe Frazier marched straight forward with only 1 punch in his arsenal!

These are the 3 BEST boxers of that era and they could barely BOX!

Where are the technical boxer-punchers of the 70's, the analogs of Lewis and Klits?

Where are the defensive masters like Byrd and Chambers?

Where are the all in one fighters like Haye and Holyfield and Tyson?

They are none. Because the sport was not evolved enough for them yet.

Further those old fighters did not hit each other as viciously as they do today. Today a HW can be knocked out with a well placed single hard shot.

In the 70's even the biggest/hardest puncher (Foreman) took 6 KD's to put down one of the smallest/chinniest fighters (Frazier) who still finished the fight on his feet.

As for your scaling up of Frazier to the size of a modern HW, think about it. If you packed Frazier with muscle like Peter he would swing more slowly, move more slowly and have a much lower workrate due to being 240 lbs! He would have a higher punch resistance and more power by virtue of crude mass too and body strength.

He would perform in my estimation EXACTLY AS SAM PETER PERFORMED!

But Frazier was not that guy. Frazier was as I described him, and the fact that a guy like that could be an Olympic champion and a HW champion is another testament to how bad the Golden era really was.

As for today, Not only is the modern HW era more proficient than the Golden Era, it's so far apart it isn't even CLOSE!

Samuel Peter would be a multiple time HW champion in the 70's with a major threat coming only from Foreman himself arguably and would dominate the 60's with no equal.

In that 20 year time span I would never have bet against Samuel Peter in any fight and would have bet almost all times on Peter to win by KO.

James Toney was a fat ass against PEter sure but so was Peter by that time, they were both unathletic at that stage so the comparison is tainted but let me say that Toney's style as a slick counter puncher and defensive fighter is not reliant on either size so much, or athleticism. As with Kirk Johnson, Chris Byrd, Eddie Chambers etc, they were never in great shape. And Peter was never a difficult to hit opponent, same as Frazier, their head bob technique afforded them a little protection from limited boxers but not from good pros, Frazier was sucessful because he faced no hard punchers and Peter was becaue he had great chin and power.

So this type of opponent was great for Toney. And of course his layers of blubber provided massive punch protection too.