Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

[Max Power]

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/featur...hammad-ali.jpg

You can see in the image above that Joe and Muhammad are not HW's by modern standards. They are chubbed up CW's. Today when we have CW's step up to HW they are usually "muscled up" and "highly athletic" at the new weight as opposed to just naturally increasing to that weight like Joe and Muhammad by virtue of getting older and fatter. If you make Joe and Muhammad train hard enough and lean up enough to make weight like current CW's do, they fit well into the 200lb limit.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s2KIJbhUZ2...weigh+in+4.jpg

I could not find one of Wladimir standing next to Peter but you all know that Wlad is even more ripped than Vitali. It is clear from viewing these 2 guys that both Vitali AND Peter are of a far higher calibre than Joe or Muhammad, about 2 or 3 weight ranges above!!

And leaner! Both Klits and Samuel are sporting the outline of what appears to be not just a 6-pack, but one with very large, strong abdominal muscles.

Yes I can certainly see what your talking about. Peter looks morbidly obese in this image! LOL

Your failing gentlemen!

The fact is that today, the champions are muscled up, lean and 6-packed and SOME of their opponents are fat.

In the "Golden Era"... The CHAMPIONS themselves were fat!

[mrbig1]

The only six pack Sam Peter has is his beer belly. Look, I'll say it again you can not compare one era vs another. As I said before a high school kid today can beat Jesse Owens time with ease. Does that mean Jesse Owens was not great? Joe Frazier in his prime was about 205. With todays diet and training Joe would be about 230. The question is could Sam Peter beat a 230 pound Joe Frazier? If James Toney could make Sam Peter look foolish at times. What does that say about Sam Peter? Ali fought in a very tough era in which there were skilled fighters. Ok, Joe Frazier beat Ali in there first fight. People forget Ali hasn't fought in 3 and a half years. True he did has 2 tune up fights. The time he fought Quarry to the Frazier fight was 5 months. Just not enough time to get back in the swing of things. I lived in both eras. Believe me the talent level has dropped way off. To me, in my life time this is the worst era for HW boxing I've ever seen. I'm not saying all of boxing just the HWs.

[Max Power]

But you just did compare one era versus another with this thread. The title of the thread was is this the worst HW era of all time. And the answer is that it is among the best in terms of skill level, effectiveness and overall talent of the fighters.

It's 2014 now and the eras your prmoting were 40-50 years ago and beyond. How could it be otherwise??

But I have seen those old fights and you can see clearly that they were smaller. You can see clearly that they were not as athletic as todays fighters. You can see clearly that they were not skilled fighters.

Fuck me, George Foreman did not even know how to box! Muhammad Ali barely knew how to box properly either and Joe Frazier marched straight forward with only 1 punch in his arsenal!

These are the 3 BEST boxers of that era and they could barely BOX!

Where are the technical boxer-punchers of the 70's, the analogs of Lewis and Klits?

Where are the defensive masters like Byrd and Chambers?

Where are the all in one fighters like Haye and Holyfield and Tyson?

They are none. Because the sport was not evolved enough for them yet.

Further those old fighters did not hit each other as viciously as they do today. Today a HW can be knocked out with a well placed single hard shot.

In the 70's even the biggest/hardest puncher (Foreman) took 6 KD's to put down one of the smallest/chinniest fighters (Frazier) who still finished the fight on his feet.

As for your scaling up of Frazier to the size of a modern HW, think about it. If you packed Frazier with muscle like Peter he would swing more slowly, move more slowly and have a much lower workrate due to being 240 lbs! He would have a higher punch resistance and more power by virtue of crude mass too and body strength.

He would perform in my estimation EXACTLY AS SAM PETER PERFORMED!

But Frazier was not that guy. Frazier was as I described him, and the fact that a guy like that could be an Olympic champion and a HW champion is another testament to how bad the Golden era really was.

As for today, Not only is the modern HW era more proficient than the Golden Era, it's so far apart it isn't even CLOSE!

Samuel Peter would be a multiple time HW champion in the 70's with a major threat coming only from Foreman himself arguably and would dominate the 60's with no equal.

In that 20 year time span I would never have bet against Samuel Peter in any fight and would have bet almost all times on Peter to win by KO.

James Toney was a fat ass against PEter sure but so was Peter by that time, they were both unathletic at that stage so the comparison is tainted but let me say that Toney's style as a slick counter puncher and defensive fighter is not reliant on either size so much, or athleticism. As with Kirk Johnson, Chris Byrd, Eddie Chambers etc, they were never in great shape. And Peter was never a difficult to hit opponent, same as Frazier, their head bob technique afforded them a little protection from limited boxers but not from good pros, Frazier was sucessful because he faced no hard punchers and Peter was becaue he had great chin and power.

So this type of opponent was great for Toney. And of course his layers of blubber provided massive punch protection too.

[Max Power]

And no MrBig I'm not saying they weren't great, they were the best of their age and that is as great as you could get!

But that doesn't afford them superhuman status. You said it yourself, you can only judge them against the criteria of their own era. That criteria is different now.

And I've no doubt there was reasons behind Ali's struggles (although struggling against Fraizer and Norton 3 times each is hard to justify) but 2 things are obvious..

He was not a DOMINANT champion like Tyson, LEwis and the Klitschko's were. He was more like a Holyfield. A great boxer who would always be at the top but who could never hold on to a title for long.

And if you excuse Ali's struggles and losses then you have to be prepared to do the same for Klitschko too. The GASSING against Puritty, the HEADBUTT against Sanders, the HYPERGLYCAEMIA against Brewster (whatever the cause). Just as we know the issues with Holyfield too.

[Mr140]

Who did Peters ever knock out that was worth a shit or top ten Max i not going look up the shit but i pretty sure none i feel his power is overrated he lost to fat mw in his prime as well with not much power. Admek could not make it in Lhw division lacks power at hw is top ten, Chambers no punch cw was a top ten. Bryde has the best wins of any opponent Wald ever fought and was established champ also a cw blown up really right. Only good guys that are 240 plus really were Lewis, Wald, Vitali, Bowe and Old George Foreman. Most the best fighters aren't giants right now besides the brothers i think any one from 70's up do fine in this era including Ali. I am not even fan of his Holyfeild is my favorite fighter but i am sure Ali could outbox a lot people of today how much footage have seen of him anyhow may i ask.

[mrbig1]

Who did Peters ever knock out that was worth a shit or top ten Max i not going look up the shit but i pretty sure none i feel his power is overrated he lost to fat mw in his prime as well with not much power. Admek could not make it in Lhw division lacks power at hw is top ten, Chambers no punch cw was a top ten. Bryde has the best wins of any opponent Wald ever fought and was established champ also a cw blown up really right. Only good guys that are 240 plus really were Lewis, Wald, Vitali, Bowe and Old George Foreman. Most the best fighters aren't giants right now besides the brothers i think any one from 70's up do fine in this era including Ali. I am not even fan of his Holyfeild is my favorite fighter but i am sure Ali could outbox a lot people of today how much footage have seen of him anyhow may i ask.

The voice of reason.

[Master]

Max does not understand reason.