Historical HW's in the modern era for Brockton to dispute

[Max Power]

So Chad Dawson once beat someone that moved up in weight to beat Arreola, whoopty doo! So that settles it huh! I guess that makes Foreman less than Leon Spinks then right because he beat Muhammad who beat him. It just doesn't work like that.

I'm not insisting that Foreman is less than Arreola. In actual fact I think it'd be a good fight. But I do know one thing, watching prime Foreman vs Lyle, seeing how shit he was there and how devastating I've seen Chris Arreola it's hard for me to envision anthing but an Arreola KO victory over big George. That's where my money'd be going anyway!!

Adamek was a really skilled boxer, believe it or not! He had not size or speed in excess but he made up for it in quality!

[ross]

So Chad Dawson once beat someone that moved up in weight to beat Arreola, whoopty doo! So that settles it huh! I guess that makes Foreman less than Leon Spinks then right because he beat Muhammad who beat him. It just doesn't work like that.

I'm not insisting that Foreman is less than Arreola. In actual fact I think it'd be a good fight. But I do know one thing, watching prime Foreman vs Lyle, seeing how shit he was there and how devastating I've seen Chris Arreola it's hard for me to envision anthing but an Arreola KO victory over big George. That's where my money'd be going anyway!!

Adamek was a really skilled boxer, believe it or not! He had not size or speed in excess but he made up for it in quality!

Arreola couldn't knock out Stiverne who doesn't have the greatest chin and isn't hard to hit.

[Max Power]

We all know what happened there, I think he would have smashed Stiverne the 1st time, he was beating him to start but his big nose got in the way. Bit hard to fight with a busted nose, it hurts and you cant see. But he troopered on and finished the entire fight! That's awesome!

I think we'll see the real ending coming up shortly

[palmerq]

Now i think max power makes some good points about modern heavyweights, the sheer size of guys these days has changed things quite a lot, and it is very possible that they do hit harder then ever , just going by size, but obviously there are a lot of other things to consider too.... I like the heavyweight division and dont think it is anywhere near as bad as it is made out to be but size isnt everything .. Wehn haye came up to heavyweight he had some good results and could ko heavy guys like chisora fairly easily and he only weight 210-220 pounds he willingly came in lower than his usual heavyweight weight to face wlad and didnt come close to being ko'd, so to say ali who was a similar size to haye would be b level because of his size is juts wrong I think.

[Max Power]

That's true @palmerq, size isn't everything but I'm not basing it on size alone.

There were 2 versions of Ali. The 60's version fought by being fast on his feet and fast with his hands. He also had exceptional stamina so he could run all night and dart in to score and be out of range avoiding getting hit. But this was all heavily dependent on the fact that that Ali out-talled nearly all his opponents. He also outweighed nearly all of them too. You'll struggle to find an opponent in that time where he did not either outsize in some way. His success was dependent on his range as well as his speed. Later 70's Ali was heavier and stronger but his success depended on taking a lot of punches.

Conversely, Haye's range is more or less hum-drum today, and in fact the guys he fought at HW most all out-talled him and all out-weighed him! Completely different situation. Haye had to depend on real boxing skills, not having the luxury of a size advantage!

When Ali slowed down it showed the truth, Ali's reflexes absolutely sucked! He depended on running around out of range to be successful! He didn't have the reflexes or the upper body movement to avoid punishment.

Haye however fights on the edge, he has some of the best reflexes at HW ever seen and excellent head and upperbody movemet. He does not regularly get hit at all!

Taking punches like Ali did might have been ok in a featherfisted era like the 60's and 70's but I think you'd agree that today that would not be an advisable strategy! At the power of the modern division one would definitely need to avoid getting hit! Chins can only be so hard! The heftier the opposition, the greater the chances of KO. That's how much HW boxing has changed. The time of the punch bags is over!

And finally, Haye has real power at HW, Ali could not crack an egg compared to Haye.

And so that's why I give credit to Haye and not so much Ali. Ali's style would be good in the amatuers today but as a professional he would find things pretty rough, atleast in the HW division.

I mean if you actually analyse his career he struggled badly against some pretty poor quality opponents, Frazier, Norton, Spinks, Young. I don't think any of these guys would play any serious factor today. And how about getting decked by 185lb Cooper, do you really think Cooper would pose a punch threat to a modern HW? Doubt it.