Subpar Foe Doesn't Mean Klitschko's Not An All-Timer

[Max Power]

Your a hardline on that Wlad cheating thing aren't you eric..

Yes, Wladimir doesn't know how to box. I would say that nobody revolutionised boxing like Wladimir did. He proved that all those things that those previous champs did were unnecessary in the case of himself and next to worthless in the case of his opponents.

Every opponent has the same plan. They're going to move, they're going to feint, they're going to go to the body blah blah and then when the fight comes, it's not that they aren't good. It's that they can't!

Did you watch the Thompson and Wach fights again? MOST of Wladimir's fights are boxing matches with only a little wrestling.

Povetkin and Peter are the worst examples, nothing else is that bad.

He's had some stinkers like Ibragimov but that was about as pure a boxing match as you can get.

He just unfortunately doesn't have a crowd pleasing style at best, but why would he want to jeapordise his titles by being a reckless brawler if he doesn't have to?

[Mr140]

Listen Wald is lucky that he got to come in after the 90's guys were getting old. Vitali might have a case as well but he could not dethrone old man Lewis they came at the right time. This division is like the 80's pretty much so i would expect there to be a long reigning champ. You are trying to compare these guys to old timers but if we go by that logic then these guys are lucky they weren't trying to be champs 20 years earlier really because they just be some top guys in the 90's and not these untouchables they are now at the moment. Wald got smacked down by contenders and a journeyman from 90's and if Vitali could not last with 38 year old Lewis, who in his prime a 38 year old Holyfeild hung with and i think deserved a draw. The Brothers might make it to the top 10 but you can't knock out old guys who did just as much in there times so kinda hard to judge were to really put them its not all about head to head, its about how resume is to how good are these guys they are fighting. Now i am only judging these by mid 80's and up is when fighters were getting bigger that's the realm in which they should be judge the 80's and the 90's.

[Beanflicker]

I think the Klitschkos are for sure ATG HW champs, but it's just weird rating them because it's hard to separate them because they both cleaned up the HW division together.

[Master]

No it does not mean he is not an ATG just as it did not mean it for Joe Louis, Tyson and Holmes. Longevity adds to a champions legacy

[erics44]

Your a hardline on that Wlad cheating thing aren't you eric..

Yes, Wladimir doesn't know how to box. I would say that nobody revolutionised boxing like Wladimir did. He proved that all those things that those previous champs did were unnecessary in the case of himself and next to worthless in the case of his opponents.

Every opponent has the same plan. They're going to move, they're going to feint, they're going to go to the body blah blah and then when the fight comes, it's not that they aren't good. It's that they can't!

Did you watch the Thompson and Wach fights again? MOST of Wladimir's fights are boxing matches with only a little wrestling.

Povetkin and Peter are the worst examples, nothing else is that bad.

He's had some stinkers like Ibragimov but that was about as pure a boxing match as you can get.

He just unfortunately doesn't have a crowd pleasing style at best, but why would he want to jeapordise his titles by being a reckless brawler if he doesn't have to?

absolutely pal

boxing is a corrupt sport, we see that week in week out

but in my memory, wlads is the most consistently extended blatently corrupt reign in history, more corrupt than sven ottke, I long for the day he gets into some trouble and we'll see the lengths the refs and officials go to to keep him in the fight

mind you they go to pretty extreme lengths everytime he fights any way

and every fight of wlads I have watched since his second reign has consisted of extreme holding, not just those two, if youd like me to watch another, one you feel he didn't bass his strategy on holding then let me know

and for the record, Im not saying wlad cant box, he definitely can, and if he had have been made to fight within the rules all his carear he would have become champ and lost it and probably won it and lost it again, he wouldn't have had the reign he has had

[El Kabong]

Did he hold much this last fight eric?

[erics44]

Did he hold much this last fight eric?

didnt watch it

i would be surprised if he didnt

but at the same time the level of opposition wasnt exactly frightening

just like if he got in with you he probably wouldnt need to hold, although he probly would just for old times sake

[powerpuncher]

why would anybody bring up the "boring" style when it comes to being a great fighter? how about it never gets mentioned again from either side because it is a ridiculous argument.

wlad has already showed his weaknesses against average-below average opponents. once the division pretty much entirely cleared out, he started taking over. it wasnt a coincidence. i understand that his reign does raise his all time status, but that doesnt mean that he becomes a top 10 HW ever. he is in the top 20 based on his reign rather than what i perceive as skill. just like someone like bowe was probably better than HWs who are ranked higher than him all time, but he doesnt have much of anything to show for it.

[El Kabong]

Did he hold much this last fight eric?

didnt watch it

The how about you shut the fuck up? Better yet...

BLOCKED

[erics44]

Did he hold much this last fight eric?

didnt watch it

The how about you shut the fuck up? Better yet...

BLOCKED

the how about you shut the fuck up instead? even better yet...

[Max Power]

Your a hardline on that Wlad cheating thing aren't you eric..

Yes, Wladimir doesn't know how to box. I would say that nobody revolutionised boxing like Wladimir did. He proved that all those things that those previous champs did were unnecessary in the case of himself and next to worthless in the case of his opponents.

Every opponent has the same plan. They're going to move, they're going to feint, they're going to go to the body blah blah and then when the fight comes, it's not that they aren't good. It's that they can't!

Did you watch the Thompson and Wach fights again? MOST of Wladimir's fights are boxing matches with only a little wrestling.

Povetkin and Peter are the worst examples, nothing else is that bad.

He's had some stinkers like Ibragimov but that was about as pure a boxing match as you can get.

He just unfortunately doesn't have a crowd pleasing style at best, but why would he want to jeapordise his titles by being a reckless brawler if he doesn't have to?

absolutely pal

boxing is a corrupt sport, we see that week in week out

but in my memory, wlads is the most consistently extended blatently corrupt reign in history, more corrupt than sven ottke, I long for the day he gets into some trouble and we'll see the lengths the refs and officials go to to keep him in the fight

mind you they go to pretty extreme lengths everytime he fights any way

and every fight of wlads I have watched since his second reign has consisted of extreme holding, not just those two, if youd like me to watch another, one you feel he didn't bass his strategy on holding then let me know

and for the record, Im not saying wlad cant box, he definitely can, and if he had have been made to fight within the rules all his carear he would have become champ and lost it and probably won it and lost it again, he wouldn't have had the reign he has had

What about Muhammad Ali eric?

You cannot bash Wlad for cheating when most would agree that he would win most anyway.

Muhammad was gifted almost half an entire career, I would say that tops Wlad.

[erics44]

Your a hardline on that Wlad cheating thing aren't you eric..

Yes, Wladimir doesn't know how to box. I would say that nobody revolutionised boxing like Wladimir did. He proved that all those things that those previous champs did were unnecessary in the case of himself and next to worthless in the case of his opponents.

Every opponent has the same plan. They're going to move, they're going to feint, they're going to go to the body blah blah and then when the fight comes, it's not that they aren't good. It's that they can't!

Did you watch the Thompson and Wach fights again? MOST of Wladimir's fights are boxing matches with only a little wrestling.

Povetkin and Peter are the worst examples, nothing else is that bad.

He's had some stinkers like Ibragimov but that was about as pure a boxing match as you can get.

He just unfortunately doesn't have a crowd pleasing style at best, but why would he want to jeapordise his titles by being a reckless brawler if he doesn't have to?

absolutely pal

boxing is a corrupt sport, we see that week in week out

but in my memory, wlads is the most consistently extended blatently corrupt reign in history, more corrupt than sven ottke, I long for the day he gets into some trouble and we'll see the lengths the refs and officials go to to keep him in the fight

mind you they go to pretty extreme lengths everytime he fights any way

and every fight of wlads I have watched since his second reign has consisted of extreme holding, not just those two, if youd like me to watch another, one you feel he didn't bass his strategy on holding then let me know

and for the record, Im not saying wlad cant box, he definitely can, and if he had have been made to fight within the rules all his carear he would have become champ and lost it and probably won it and lost it again, he wouldn't have had the reign he has had

What about Muhammad Ali eric?

You cannot bash Wlad for cheating when most would agree that he would win most anyway.

Muhammad was gifted almost half an entire career, I would say that tops Wlad.

You cannot bash Wlad for cheating when most would agree that he would win most anyway. we will never know and its a daft point anyway, might as well give united a couple of penalties head start, theyd win the game anyway

and i dont think he would have won all of those fights had he been stopped from cheating, maybe he would have gone in to them all as the better boxer? maybe he wouldnt, but at the very least one of his opponents would have got to him and the fights would have been a lot more entertaining in the main

Muhammad was gifted almost half an entire career, I would say that tops Wlad. I am too young to really appreciate the Ali era, i wasnt around to watch it whilst it was happening, the fights i have seen i havent seen any gifts, point me out one that is a gift and ill watch it. I know ali also fought subpar opposition, but i havent seen any excessive cheating

so i dont think it is anywhere near the reign of wlad in terms of consistent prolonged excessive corruption

[Mr140]

There has only really been a few fights were i think Wald has over did it compared to past greats when i comes to holding. I think you have grudge because of the Haye fight were Haye ran then hugged Wald trying to blow him. Wald may not be the best to ever walk the planet but you have some grudge over him its got to be that i guess. Reason being before the Haye fight you never mention Wald in such a bad light but after he beat Haye and in that fight Wlad was not the one going for holds or running so it was pretty much Haye. I don't think you should hate Wald for that thought dude come on now.

[erics44]

There has only really been a few fights were i think Wald has over did it compared to past greats when i comes to holding. I think you have grudge because of the Haye fight were Haye ran then hugged Wald trying to blow him. Wald may not be the best to ever walk the planet but you have some grudge over him its got to be that i guess. Reason being before the Haye fight you never mention Wald in such a bad light but after he beat Haye and in that fight Wlad was not the one going for holds or running so it was pretty much Haye. I don't think you should hate Wald for that thought dude come on now.

you think so do you

you must have studdied my posts well

one point is tho, wlad has over held in more than just a few fights, id say its more like just a few fights where he hasnt

is it so inconceivable that all the people who wlad makes so rich wouldnt want wlad to still be champ in 10 years?

[Mr140]

Well it was mostly in the Haye build up you kept building up Haye and pissing lyle off but you never called Wald a cheat till after he beat Haye and it was not Wald doing most of fouling could be wrong maybe there another reason you do. I am just saying before the fight you never called Wald a cheat before.