Is Mayweather a all time great?

[fan johnny]

@Beanflicker - I don't think you should be too surprised that there people who view Mayweather's accomplishments as not quite at the same level as you might view them. There's no doubt he is a first ballot inductee to the Hall of Fame. There's also no doubt that in the last 25 years he is one of the top three boxers to fight. There's an aura, however, about some of historical fighters that eludes Mayweather.

Take Duran. Duran started out as a lightweight, moved on to welterweight, middleweight and then super middleweight. He fought Hagler, Hearns and Barkley at middleweight. I don't rate Martinez/GGG on the level of Hagler at middleweight, but it would be the equivalent of Mayweather moving up to middleweight and facing that type of competition. Keep in mind Duran was only 5'7. Those are risky fights for a guy his size. That kind of risk-taking endeared him to boxing fans and boxing historians. There is the impression that Mayweather hasn't taken those type of risks. He also isn't retired yet so let's withhold judgment.

Take Harry Greb too. I wrote a long post in another thread briefly explaining Greb's greatness that I'm not sure you had a chance to respond to. You'll see that in one year, not even his best year, he fought 4 future Hall of Famers when they were on their game, not post-prime, and 10 other title holder- level opponents. That's outright crazy. Times are different now, but still.

How many guys on Mayweather's CV will make the Hall of Fame and did Mayweather face them at their best? The Hall of Fame measure is subjective, but we can use it as a gauge.

Also, at this point, who would you say is Mayweather's signature victory when he was on top his game and the guy on the other side of the ring was on top of his game? Duran's Leonard. Tunney's Dempsey. etc. How would you compare that victory to the best victory of the greats?

Just so we're clear, throughout 2007-2011, there was this phenomenon that you either were a fan of Mayweather or Pacquiao, but not both. I don't subscribe to that idea. I like both guys. In my opinion, they're both greats.

Great Post!

Mayweather will go down in the record books as the most "calculated" boxer in the history of the sport both in and out of the ring, unless he ends up blowing his money.

[Freedom]

Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.

He avoided:

prime Cotto
prime Mosley
prime De La Hoya
Kostya Tszyu
Vernon Forrest
Paul Williams
Antonio Margarito
Manny Pacquiao

Floyd decided to "retire" when the welterweight division was at it's best in 2007-2009 with Cotto, Margarito, Williams, Mosley, etc.

[Ron Swanson]

[QUOTE=Freedom;1243763]Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.

He avoided:

prime Cotto(Floyd said he wanted. 10 mill and it was on, Bob said no. It's in Dan Rafaels archives. Bob said the money wasn't there so Floyd faught him when Bob was out of the picture for 40 million. Really think about what Bob said and what happened and who was the hindrance)
prime Mosley(Floyd offered Shane 8 million to fight Shane said he had a toothache err needed a vacation and turned around and fought one month later for less than 2 million. Who was the hindance there)
prime De La Hoya(Floyd from the beginning of his career always begged for this fight)
Kostya Tszyu(tough to make with HBO/Showtime issue, neither was big enough then to force a collaboration)
Vernon Forrest(never in same division)
Paul Williams(okay, I'll give you this one although I think PWs rise in the WW division and departure from happened while Floyd was gone but I'm not sure)
Antonio Margarito(hahaha but for the record see Cotto, Floyd gave Bob an amount and Bob said no. Same Dan Rafael archive can prove it)
Manny Pacquiao(Floyd agreed and Pac backed out. Both of these two are to blame over this fiasco but you can never take away the fact that the fight was once on and Floyd was good to go at the exact time the fight was right Floyd was in. That's not opinion that's a fact)

[Rantcatrat]

[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;1243770]

Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.

He avoided:

prime Cotto(Floyd said he wanted. 10 mill and it was on, Bob said no. It's in Dan Rafaels archives. Bob said the money wasn't there so Floyd faught him when Bob was out of the picture for 40 million. Really think about what Bob said and what happened and who was the hindrance)
prime Mosley(Floyd offered Shane 8 million to fight Shane said he had a toothache err needed a vacation and turned around and fought one month later for less than 2 million. Who was the hindance there)
prime De La Hoya(Floyd from the beginning of his career always begged for this fight)
Kostya Tszyu(tough to make with HBO/Showtime issue, neither was big enough then to force a collaboration)
Vernon Forrest(never in same division)
Paul Williams(okay, I'll give you this one although I think PWs rise in the WW division and departure from happened while Floyd was gone but I'm not sure)
Antonio Margarito(hahaha but for the record see Cotto, Floyd gave Bob an amount and Bob said no. Same Dan Rafael archive can prove it)
Manny Pacquiao(Floyd agreed and Pac backed out. Both of these two are to blame over this fiasco but you can never take away the fact that the fight was once on and Floyd was good to go at the exact time the fight was right Floyd was in. That's not opinion that's a fact)

I disagree with the avoided concept for Floyd's career. It's more accurate to describe it as missed. Avoided implies it was all Floyd's fault, which it might have been with some of the opponents, but it wasn't with all of them.

Floyd missed everyone on that list though for one reason or the other.

I'm not sure why the reason isn't pretty obvious: He's had Bob Arum or Al Haymon guiding his career at all times. They've done a terrific job. How many famous boxers die penniless? Floyd's the richest athlete in the world and he has no endorsements in a niche sport. That's crazy talk.

[bradlee180]

Richest athlete in the world doesn't mean much.

Mike Tyson and Holyfield are broke, lost it all, and they had endorsements on top of massive ring-earnings. And Mayweather has already had his tax issues on a couple of occasions. Tyson grossed about 350 million in purses alone.

And the same applies to many NFL and NBA athletes too.

It turns out that child-support payments breaks many athletes, often an athlete paying 5 or more women because he was poking everything that moved!

Holyfield with 12 kids by 6 women, ahah hah!

[VG_Addict]

Floyd's performance at 130 alone makes him an ATG.

He's a top 5 all time at 130.

[powerpuncher]

Richest athlete in the world doesn't mean much.

Mike Tyson and Holyfield are broke, lost it all, and they had endorsements on top of massive ring-earnings. And Mayweather has already had his tax issues on a couple of occasions. Tyson grossed about 350 million in purses alone.

And the same applies to many NFL and NBA athletes too.

It turns out that child-support payments breaks many athletes, often an athlete paying 5 or more women because he was poking everything that moved!

Holyfield with 12 kids by 6 women, ahah hah!

the difference is that someone like tyson would blow all of his money right after a fight. even though floyd may be stupid in some respects, he seems pretty business savvy. i dont really see him going broke. he is super rich and has a lot of connections. IMO i believe that his promotional company will boom once he retires.