Is Mayweather a all time great?

[Beanflicker]

229(65 KO)-11-1....horrible, atrocious record.....how'd he EVER win a belt?

Again, it comes back to that double standard where we'll take a current great fighter, in this case Floyd, and go over his record with a fine-toothed comb - this guy sucks, that guy sucks, that guy was overrated, that guy was washed up, ect ect ect. 46-0? 18 years undefeated? Who cares? He only fought hand picked patsies (not my opinion, just echoing the opinion a lot of people here feel about Floyd).

But then when we're talking about (insert old timer here), "ohhh well look how great he is, he has over 200 wins". Ok, but how many of those wins were against quality guys? An insanely small fraction. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Klitschko, ect... these guys could easily go to a similar (or better) record fighting that kind of opposition.

So which is it? Do we judge on quantity or quality?

Also, about Duran... great fighter, one of my personal favorites. I don't watch the second Leonard fight or the Hearns fight because it breaks my heart to see him in those positions. But let's get real: we're talking about a guy who was the lowest rung of the "Fab 4", a guy who never even came close to being dominant once he left LW, a guy who has proven flaws/shortcomings technically that were exploited by slick fighters, and a guy who did not have the proper discipline of a champion and came into several fights out of shape. A guy who quit in the middle of a championship fight because of a "tummy ache", a guy who was outclassed on numerous occaisions by slick boxers and knocked unconscious by one of his peers in short order.

Contrast that with a guy who was COMPLETELY dominant in his time, adapted and beat every style/body type/ect that was thrown at him, and was so dominant in his victories that he never had a legit rival. They don't match up.

You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.

[El Kabong]

Of course, exactly my thoughts......none of them should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Floyd. In fact they shouldn't even call what those guys did "boxing" because it just doesn't even come close to what Floyd has accomplished. Boxing should be called "Mayweathering" because Floyd Mayweather Jr. is just that great at it!


ALL HAIL THE ALL-TIME GREAT MAYWEATHERING CHAMPION FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR!!!!

[El Kabong]

You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.

The Ray Robinson who has 19 losses? and to who? Great fighters

The Ray Leonard who was beaten pillar to post by the very same Roberto Duran you're saying is a quitter? Yeah pick out the rematch as the 1 fight to focus on, pay no attention to the first fight.


It's not just me saying Duran and Pep belong on the all-time top pound for pound list, it's damn near every single boxing pundit since those guys stopped fighting. But since YOU disagree I guess that means my points aren't valid.

[Master]

Floyd is a great fighter but not the greatest of all time as he claims to be.

[El Kabong]

Floyd is a great fighter but not the greatest of all time as he claims to be.

How VERY dare you!

[Master]

Floyd is a great fighter but not the greatest of all time as he claims to be.

How VERY dare you!

I dare because I care and you need to be told the truth but you just can not handle it.

[El Kabong]

Just take a second to let this sink in, Willie Pep started boxing as a professional 2 months shy of his 18th birthday in 1940. By 1942 he was 54-0-0 (that's 27 fights a year), had won the NYSAC World featherweight title (back when that meant something) in The Ring Magazine Fight of The Year vs Chalky Wright. Pep went 62-0-0 before his first loss to Sammy Agnott who was a LIGHTWEIGHT in 1943. Pep recovered until his second loss in 1948 to Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler and Pep's record was then 134-2-1 and this mind you is POST airplane crash which could have and should have ended Pep's career. Pep went on to recover and eventually avenge the loss to Saddler.

But you're going to tell me that doesn't matter? All those guys were bums? Fighting 27 times a year back to back wouldn't wear down a fighter, a fighter wouldn't run the risk of getting caught in that many rounds?


I don't just mention Willie Pep because he's an old timer, I mention him because he was a fucking great fighter! But I guess he just doesn't stand up to Floyd's records and Floyd's challengers.

[El Kabong]

I mean I am TRYING to be reasonable.....but fucking hell.


Yes I understand quantity vs quality but Willie Pep DID fight Hall of Famers, he DID fighter top fighters, he DID suffer some severe adversity and have to battle through that...to write it off just because you're only looking at the number 229 rather than seeing:

Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler
Ring Top 100 Puncher Chalky Wright
Willie Joyce who owned 2 wins over Henry Armstrong
Hall of Famer Manuel Ortiz
Hall of Famer Phil Terranova

It's not JUST that Pep fought seemingly every week, but he fought a fair few very solid if not great fighters in their own right.

[beenKOed]

Of course Floyd is an ATG.

Where you rank him will depend on him still having that ZERO when he retires. Will be on the ATG list somewhere, regardless.

[Beanflicker]

The Ray Robinson who has 19 losses? and to who? Great fighters

The Ray Leonard who was beaten pillar to post by the very same Roberto Duran you're saying is a quitter? Yeah pick out the rematch as the 1 fight to focus on, pay no attention to the first fight.


It's not just me saying Duran and Pep belong on the all-time top pound for pound list, it's damn near every single boxing pundit since those guys stopped fighting. But since YOU disagree I guess that means my points aren't valid.

Yuck. When did every poster here turn into a bunch of butt-hurt wimps who cry and resort to lame sarcasm whenever someone disagrees and actually, ya know, tries to debate them? Sweet Jesus.

"I think Floyd undoubtedly deserves to be recognized as one of the greatest of all time, and I take issue with the fact that you mentioned that these two guys are vastly superior to Floyd, because, conversely, I believe they were inferior."

"AHHHHH ALL HAIL KING FLOYD EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE!!! OH NOBODY CAN MATCH UP TO HIM HE COULD OUTRUN USAIN BOLT AND BEAT CAIN VELASQUEZ IN AN MMA FIGHT!!! OHHHH BEANFLICKER I GUESS CUZ YOU DISAGREE EVERYONES DUMB BEANFLICKER AND FLOYD ARE THE EMPERORS OF SPACE AND TIME AHHHHHH FEEL THE WRATH OF MY WITTY SARCASM HAHHHHHHH"

Fuck...

[El Kabong]

Of course Floyd is an ATG.

Where you rank him will depend on him still having that ZERO when he retires. Will be on the ATG list somewhere, regardless.

Does it? I think his legacy is fairly set right now given the opponents he has to choose from...now if he said "I'm going to grab a middleweight belt" and did so before he retired, then YES I would immediately put him up with SRR, Duran, Pep, Armstrong, and whoever else you can name. Other than that I don't even really see a loss hampering his career because he's already past his best but he's still great enough to school damn near anyone.

[Beanflicker]

Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler
Ring Top 100 Puncher Chalky Wright
Willie Joyce who owned 2 wins over Henry Armstrong
Hall of Famer Manuel Ortiz
Hall of Famer Phil Terranova
.

Cool, you named 5 guys. Do you think I can't name five quality guys Floyd has fought?

If Floyd sandwiched in 150 BUMS with losing records between his real fights, would that somehow make him greater?

[Rantcatrat]

229(65 KO)-11-1....horrible, atrocious record.....how'd he EVER win a belt?

Again, it comes back to that double standard where we'll take a current great fighter, in this case Floyd, and go over his record with a fine-toothed comb - this guy sucks, that guy sucks, that guy was overrated, that guy was washed up, ect ect ect. 46-0? 18 years undefeated? Who cares? He only fought hand picked patsies (not my opinion, just echoing the opinion a lot of people here feel about Floyd).

But then when we're talking about (insert old timer here), "ohhh well look how great he is, he has over 200 wins". Ok, but how many of those wins were against quality guys? An insanely small fraction. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Klitschko, ect... these guys could easily go to a similar (or better) record fighting that kind of opposition.

So which is it? Do we judge on quantity or quality?

Also, about Duran... great fighter, one of my personal favorites. I don't watch the second Leonard fight or the Hearns fight because it breaks my heart to see him in those positions. But let's get real: we're talking about a guy who was the lowest rung of the "Fab 4", a guy who never even came close to being dominant once he left LW, a guy who has proven flaws/shortcomings technically that were exploited by slick fighters, and a guy who did not have the proper discipline of a champion and came into several fights out of shape. A guy who quit in the middle of a championship fight because of a "tummy ache", a guy who was outclassed on numerous occaisions by slick boxers and knocked unconscious by one of his peers in short order.

Contrast that with a guy who was COMPLETELY dominant in his time, adapted and beat every style/body type/ect that was thrown at him, and was so dominant in his victories that he never had a legit rival. They don't match up.

You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.

Just out of curiosity, how many times has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" on the level Duran did? In fact, when has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" at all?

[Beanflicker]

Just out of curiosity, how many times has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" on the level Duran did? In fact, when has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" at all?

That's a fair enough point, I don't think Mayweather has ever fought someone like a Benitez.

[El Kabong]

Cool, you named 5 guys. Do you think I can't name five quality guys Floyd has fought?

If Floyd sandwiched in 150 BUMS with losing records between his real fights, would that somehow make him greater?

I give up Beanflicker....Floyd Mayweather is God, the sun rises and sets with him, nobody has had or will have the talent that man possesses.

Are we a happy poster now? Or would you care for me to lavish more praise on Floyd? Can I call him Floyd? Do I have the permission to address The Great One as such