Iraq

[El Kabong]

the Hawk of the Bush administration just had no clues how it was working; they had big insigns from some top military but prefered to listen to their very own twisted ideology and really thought that the "freedom" tag they'd give to people would mean goodies all along the way. They couldn't have been any more wrong and they are the fucknuts who did spark the problem. Not Obama. Sure, Obama didn't handle the situation any better but he got handed a large plate of poo and I am not sure that there was anything much better to do at this point. Stop blindly blaming the libs Lyle, look at both side of the medals and you'll see that the elephant started the mess the donkey couldn't stop.

The elephant started the mess eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENAV_UoIfgc

Hmmmm.....well certainly you've got me there

[Kirkland Laing]

I think the world needs to join hands in exterminating these extremist groups.

We join hands with the guys who finance them instead.

[Spicoli]

Wars are not winnable in a conventional literal way now. There is no 1+1=2 cookie cutter resolution. We knew in the Persian Gulf, Somalia and when the towers fell this was not out Grand daddy's war. Hell, we learned that in Vietnam but refused to learn and adapt during.

Obama is speaking now and I have no idea what the fook he is saying. Double talk, rainbows & unicorns and walking on water. Bush did the exact same thing. So we're sending 300 "Military non combat advisors" to train Iraq forces...again. Third times the charm eh Walk in and pat them on the back and give them an Atta' boy speech. All the while waiting for one of them to turn their weapon on them. Is this Bizarro world.

What a fuckin mess man. There really is no answer, at least not for us to offer at this stage.

[Kirkland Laing]

Megyn Kelly Confronts Dick Cheney: 'You Got It Wrong' On Iraq (VIDEO)



Former Vice President Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz have an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal arguing that Barack Obama is insufficiently tough on Iraq, and was wrong to "abandon" the country. They also took to Fox News to announce they were starting a new organization, the Alliance for a Strong America, that will "advocate for the policies needed to restore American power and pre-eminence."
You might be tempted to take their opinions seriously. This would be a mistake. Here are seventeen reasons why.
1) "[9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta] did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack."
- Dick Cheney, December 9, 2001.
Atta did not meet with Iraqi intelligence in Prague. Cheney knew this claim was unsubstantiated but made it publicly anyway. Also Czechoslovakia was not a country in April 2001.
2) "The issue is that [Saddam] has chemical weapons."
- Dick Cheney, March 24, 2002.
No he did not.
3) "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
- Dick Cheney, August 25, 2002.
Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction then.
4) "Another argument holds that opposing Saddam Hussein would cause even greater troubles in that part of the world, and interfere with the larger war against terror. I believe the opposite is true."
- Dick Cheney, August 25, 2002.
The Iraq War was a catastrophe that caused even greater troubles, including hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees, in that part of the world. It also harmed the war on terror.
5) "We do know, with absolute certainty, that [Saddam] is using his procurement system to acquire the equipment he needs in order to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon."
- Dick Cheney, September 8, 2002.
Not only was this false, especially the "absolute certainty" part, Cheney likely knew it to be false at the time he said it; the intelligence community was in fact divided about the state of Iraq's nuclear program.
6) "[Saddam] now is trying, through his illicit procurement network, to acquire the equipment he needs to be able to enrich uranium to make the bombs…Specifically aluminum tubes."
- Dick Cheney, September 8, 2002.
The tubes were for rockets. Department of Energy analysts raised doubts more than a year before Cheney made these claims about the likelihood the tubes were for enrichment.
7) "We know that [Saddam Hussein] has re-energized, if you will, his efforts to acquire a nuclear weapon."
- Dick Cheney, September 9, 2002.
The Iraq Survey Group concluded after a thorough investigation that "Saddam Hussein ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."
"We now have irrefutable evidence that [Saddam] has once again set up and reconstituted his program to take uranium, to enrich it to sufficiently high grade, so that it will function as the base material as a nuclear weapon. And there's no doubt about the fact that the level of effort has escalated in recent months."
- Dick Cheney, September 20, 2002.
Cheney knew there was not "irrefutable evidence," as the intelligence community was divided. And reality subsequently refuted the claim entirely.
9) "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators."
- Dick Cheney, March 16, 2003.
We were not greeted as liberators.
10) "[Saddam] also had an established relationship with al Qaeda — providing training to al Qaeda members in areas of poisons, gases and conventional bombs."
- Dick Cheney, October 17, 2013.
A 2006 Senate intelligence committee report concluded, "Postwar findings support the April 2002 Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) assessment that there was no credible reporting on al-Qa'eda training at Salman Pak or anywhere else in Iraq."
11) "In Iraq, a ruthless dictator cultivated weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. He gave support to terrorists, had an established relationship with al Qaeda, and his regime is no more."
- Dick Cheney, November 7, 2003.
There was no such relationship between al Qaeda and Iraq. Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.

[Kirkland Laing]

12) "We haven't really had the time yet to pore through all those records in Baghdad. We'll find ample evidence confirming the link, that is the connection if you will between al Qaeda and the Iraqi intelligence services. They have worked together on a number of occasions."
- Dick Cheney, January 9, 2004.
Again, there was no such relationship between al Qaeda and the Iraqi intelligence services.
13) "We know, for example, that prior to our going in that [Saddam] had spent time and effort acquiring mobile biological weapons labs, and we're quite confident he did, in fact, have such a program. We've found a couple of semi trailers at this point which we believe were, in fact, part of that program. I would deem that conclusive evidence, if you will, that he did, in fact, have programs for weapons of mass destruction."
- Dick Cheney, January 22, 2004.
A British investigation concluded those "mobile biological weapons labs" were nothing of the sort. The Iraq Survey group report states, "ISG has found no evidence to support the view that the trailers were used, or intended to be used, for the production of [biological warfare] agents."
14) "It’s clearly established in terms of training, provision of bomb-making experts, training of people with respect to chemical and biological warfare capabilities, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Iraq for training and so forth."
- Dick Cheney, June 4, 2004.
Again, not only was that not true, but the DIA and others in the intelligence community questioned it before the war began.
15) "I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."
- Dick Cheney, June 20, 2005.
Anti-Iraqi government insurgency persists nine years later.
16) "I don’t think that [the war in Iraq] damaged our reputation around the world."
- Dick Cheney, August 30, 2011.
The Iraq war drastically damaged our reputation around the world.
17) "The biggest threat we face is the possibility of terrorist groups like al Qaeda equipped with weapons of mass destruction, with nukes, bugs or gas. That was the threat after 9/11 and when we took down Saddam Hussein we eliminated Iraq as a potential source of that."
- Dick Cheney, October 28, 2013.

[Kirkland Laing]

Wars are not winnable in a conventional literal way now. There is no 1+1=2 cookie cutter resolution. We knew in the Persian Gulf, Somalia and when the towers fell this was not out Grand daddy's war. Hell, we learned that in Vietnam but refused to learn and adapt during.

Obama is speaking now and I have no idea what the fook he is saying. Double talk, rainbows & unicorns and walking on water. Bush did the exact same thing. So we're sending 300 "Military non combat advisors" to train Iraq forces...again. Third times the charm eh Walk in and pat them on the back and give them an Atta' boy speech. All the while waiting for one of them to turn their weapon on them. Is this Bizarro world.

What a fuckin mess man. There really is no answer, at least not for us to offer at this stage.

There is zero difference between Obama and Bush on Iraq. Bush spent the years after Maliki took power trying to get him to make a deal with the Sunnis and trying to get rid of him when he refused to. Obama is doing the exact same thing. Now Obama is, according to the NYT, thinking about installing Ahmad Chalabi as prez. That America would ignore an actual democratic election result and boot the winner out in favour of their guy is not anything new. That Obama would try and install the guy Bush originally wanted to run Iraq even when it became comically obvious that he had no chance of being acceptable is unbelievable. It's like American foreign policy is frozen in amber and can't ever alter.

Chalabi it turned out was convicted of embezzling tens of millions from a bank in Jordan that he was running. So he's a dodgy banker. One of these guys.




But that's not the major reason he's a bad guy. It turns out he was also an Iranian agent feeding Dick Cheney and his people bullshit about Saddam so that America had the bs intel they needed to invade Iraq. Iran always knew they'd end up running Iraq if America invaded. So now America is making a second attempt to install an Iranian agent as head of Iraq to replace the, uh, Iranian agent that won the recent election but that America doesn't like. Fucking unbelievable.

[El Kabong]

Wars are not winnable in a conventional literal way now.

I'm sure you probably mean because the public gets a better eyeful of war than used to be the case...the far left do their part to sabotage their own nation as well...unless "their guy" is in office hence the lack of anti-war protests under Obama when he has halfassedly carried out similar foreign policies as W....but hey W is white and a Republican, there's not enough hate on Earth for him.

[Nameless]

the Hawk of the Bush administration just had no clues how it was working; they had big insigns from some top military but prefered to listen to their very own twisted ideology and really thought that the "freedom" tag they'd give to people would mean goodies all along the way. They couldn't have been any more wrong and they are the fucknuts who did spark the problem. Not Obama. Sure, Obama didn't handle the situation any better but he got handed a large plate of poo and I am not sure that there was anything much better to do at this point. Stop blindly blaming the libs Lyle, look at both side of the medals and you'll see that the elephant started the mess the donkey couldn't stop.

The elephant started the mess eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENAV_UoIfgc

Hmmmm.....well certainly you've got me there

Who attacked Iraq first? Ain't it Bush SR? And then, who officially put the Us Army in Iraq? Ain't that Bush Jr? Though Bill asked to do something, he's not the one who did officially send the army first (or second shall I say).
Also, Clinton didn't want things to be done the way the Hawks of the Neo-Cons think-thank wanted it; they were the only silly idiots thinking it would be over in over 3 weeks. And they are the one who invented the WMD scheme in order to reate a reason to attack. Even Wolfowitz who was one of the top 3 hawks did admit it afterward, that it was all a lie but " a bureaucratic reason upon which all could agree to attack". Talk about a bunch of fuckin filthy liars focusing on the profit of their very own friends with no regard for the life of others:
USATODAY.com - Wolfowitz comments revive doubts over Iraq's WMD

Perpetually Wrong Paul Wolfowitz Is Still Convinced He Knows What Would Have Happened in Iraq If We Hadn’t Invaded | Vanity Fair

[El Kabong]

You're right, you're right...We've GOT to give Democrats a pass but please continue on hating both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush simply because they are Republicans and all Republicans are evil. Those Progressive Liberals ALWAYS have everyone's best interests at heart and even if they fail (which they ALWAYS DO) their good intentions are what truly matters.


You can't be this wishy washy with Allies, you CAN'T it is fucking idiotic. You don't want war then don't go in, but once you're in a war fucking be in it to WIN! You just can't be so fucking half assed with people who need our help, their lives are in danger due to our being there regardless of what got us to that point so either we own up to our word and help or we head home and try to block out shit like this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGoILUv4S0


But hey you know Go Team Obama!

[Andre]

You're right, you're right...We've GOT to give Democrats a pass but please continue on hating both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush simply because they are Republicans and all Republicans are evil. Those Progressive Liberals ALWAYS have everyone's best interests at heart and even if they fail (which they ALWAYS DO) their good intentions are what truly matters.


You can't be this wishy washy with Allies, you CAN'T it is fucking idiotic. You don't want war then don't go in, but once you're in a war fucking be in it to WIN! You just can't be so fucking half assed with people who need our help, their lives are in danger due to our being there regardless of what got us to that point so either we own up to our word and help or we head home and try to block out shit like this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGoILUv4S0


But hey you know Go Team Obama!

Why split hairs between parties? They are all systematic murdering cunts the lot of them.
Why stick up for any of them, fuck their sides and their stupid political games.

[El Kabong]

You're right, you're right...We've GOT to give Democrats a pass but please continue on hating both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush simply because they are Republicans and all Republicans are evil. Those Progressive Liberals ALWAYS have everyone's best interests at heart and even if they fail (which they ALWAYS DO) their good intentions are what truly matters.


You can't be this wishy washy with Allies, you CAN'T it is fucking idiotic. You don't want war then don't go in, but once you're in a war fucking be in it to WIN! You just can't be so fucking half assed with people who need our help, their lives are in danger due to our being there regardless of what got us to that point so either we own up to our word and help or we head home and try to block out shit like this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGoILUv4S0


But hey you know Go Team Obama!

Why split hairs between parties? They are all systematic murdering cunts the lot of them.
Why stick up for any of them, fuck their sides and their stupid political games.

Because 1 party hates America and the other doesn't

[holmcall]

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1252751]How anyone with reason and the history education of your average 7th Grader didn't see this happening is unbelievable. We had no business in Iraq. Bush, Obama.. really doesn't matter. We bled too much of our treasure, yet again.[/QUOTE


Yes 100% correct insofar as the second conflict was concerned. But the first one (The Gulf War) was one that did require our attention and intervention if for no other reason than the Carter Doctrine.


Now these imbeciles are talking about sending "advisers" in. That's what we did in Viet Nam in the beginning, Can't we ever learn from history?

[mrbig1]

The best thing the U.S. can do is 1. shut the fuck up 2. Stay the fuck out. 3. Stop backing Israel.

[El Kabong]

The best thing the U.S. can do is 1. shut the fuck up 2. Stay the fuck out. 3. Stop backing Israel.

It's not about Israel and even if it was that would just be the tip of the iceberg

[Kirkland Laing]

You're right, you're right...We've GOT to give Democrats a pass but please continue on hating both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush simply because they are Republicans and all Republicans are evil. Those Progressive Liberals ALWAYS have everyone's best interests at heart and even if they fail (which they ALWAYS DO) their good intentions are what truly matters.


You can't be this wishy washy with Allies, you CAN'T it is fucking idiotic. You don't want war then don't go in, but once you're in a war fucking be in it to WIN! You just can't be so fucking half assed with people who need our help, their lives are in danger due to our being there regardless of what got us to that point so either we own up to our word and help or we head home and try to block out shit like this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGoILUv4S0


But hey you know Go Team Obama!

Just over the last few months you would have sent American troops into Syria, Ukraine, Nigeria and now Iraq. How about you do something constructive with your life and go down and enlist? Show them what they're doing wrong when they invade these places.