Ring Generalship

[Gandalf]

A body shot is only worth the same as a head shot. So whilst a body shot may look flash, it is a single scored punch as is a directly landed headshot. I don't draw a distinction between the two in a scoring sense.

Ring generalship is about doing what you want to do and making your opponent do what he doesn't want to do. In that sense both fighters did that in the rounds I thought they won. Lara was making Canelo miss a LOT of punches with his Cuban style and outlanding Canelo, then at times Canelo looked to be coming on with pressure and body attacks. Overall on a round by round basis, I thought Lara won the fight, a close, not very fun, technical victory.

Scoring a fight is a combination of generalship, effective aggression, defense and how much Oscar powder you have been slipped. It is on that basis that I now fully understand the scoring of Judge Martinez.

[Master]

Ring generalship is a fancy word for hitting and not getting hit, in other words fighting smart.

[Beanflicker]

I don't think we have a consistent definition of what pro boxing is supposed to be. It seems like everybody judges fights by their own definition, like we're at an art museum looking at paintings.

Some people will say Lara had the ring generalship because he was moving effectively and dictating range and pace. Some people will say Canelo had the ring generalship because he was the one moving forward and "making the fight", and Lara had to react to everything he was doing. I have no idea who's right anymore.

Every time there's a controversial decision, people spout cliches that have absolutely no bearing in reality, but for some reason now have somehow become law. Things like "you can't win a fight going backwards" (I've seen hundreds of fights dominated by going backwards), "you have to really beat up the champ to take his belt" (actually it should be you have to win more rounds than the champ to take his belt. What, is a judge supposed to say "well fighter A won that round clearly, but it wasn't a domination so I'm gonna give it to Fighter B because he's the champ". What the fuck is that?)

So yeah, I don't know how you're supposed to judge a pro boxing bout anymore. I thought it was about clean, effective punching and/or effective aggressiveness. But I'm constantly told things like "this isn't the amateurs this is pro". So fuck, I don't know anymore.

[Bill Paxtom]

Professional Boxing

The scoring process 'sucks'.

[amat]

A body shot is only worth the same as a head shot. So whilst a body shot may look flash, it is a single scored punch as is a directly landed headshot. I don't draw a distinction between the two in a scoring sense.

Ring generalship is about doing what you want to do and making your opponent do what he doesn't want to do. In that sense both fighters did that in the rounds I thought they won. Lara was making Canelo miss a LOT of punches with his Cuban style and outlanding Canelo, then at times Canelo looked to be coming on with pressure and body attacks. Overall on a round by round basis, I thought Lara won the fight, a close, not very fun, technical victory.

Scoring a fight is a combination of generalship, effective aggression, defense and how much Oscar powder you have been slipped. It is on that basis that I now fully understand the scoring of Judge Martinez.

A body shot is supposed to mean as much as a head shot in the amateurs with Olympic style scoring. In the professionals we are expected to decide a difference in punches. I thought Canelo's body shots meant more (and I thought he landed more than Shostats gave him credit for) than the (sometimes) fleeting shots of Lara. The straight lefts are the only shots the Cuban stood his ground on and he seemed to give up on those in round four. Half the time Lara hit Canelo, it was as he was turning him so obviously those punches aren't going to register as much as the loud, digging blows of Alvarez. Also, I'm not debating a 117-11 scorecard here because I don't agree with that card but it doesn't surprise me either and I don't think it's a case of corruption.

I'll get to the other replies later but my only point is that Lara was not what I think of as a ring general. Rigondeaux, Ward, Mayweather etc. keep you out of punching range for no more than a second at a time then work themselves into a position that works for them. Lara did not control the ring but instead controlled the pace, which is not the same thing. He decided the fight would be contested five seconds at a time. If he would have just thrown more shots off of a planted back foot then I would halfway buy that argument but he didn't. I don't know, Viva La Argentina.

[Spicoli]

This fight in particular had a severe lag and choppiness the first few rounds so as far as fully scoring it was impossible. But from what I saw Lara fought exactly like he has always fought and I do not consider that 'running', while at the same time its certainly not a traditional consistent defensive boxer. Lara is a spoiler and boils down the pace, he gets booed and does not care a bit. One minute he'll shoot nice a combination, a hard left hand, the next he'll stab a jab slide off and grab you. He has always showed signs and susceptibility to being outworked and outhustled once you get past the window dressing in the front of his shop and force his ankles and high head. Alvarez looked to win the fight with effective bodywork and harder shots but at times looked confused and half hearted with attack. Frankly...I thought he could have very likely scored a tko had he forced the pace and not watched his work and let off but a full rewatch is in order when the replay it. That was the most frustrating thing to me as well as 117-111. Ring general to me is a fighter who controls and decides the action and ring real estate. Not so much a 'style' but showing multiple adjustments and exploiting his opponents mistakes and helping him make more.