David Haines beheading: David Cameron says Britain will hunt down Isis 'monsters'

[Beanz]

[QUOTE=ryanman;1268809]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

[Gandalf]

I think you need to hold our elite to account for their crimes, control the borders, and then make a concerted effort to integrate those who already live in the UK. However, they are never going to assimilate when you keep on bombing countries that have nothing to do with you. You have to lead by example and show you are doing the right thing first. That is crucial. How can you ever say a Muslim should not be militant when Blair is walking free and we were/are physically involved in creating Isis? You just cannot reconcile that. Until the elite change, nothing will change.

[Master]

[QUOTE=Greenbeanz;1268961]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

[Gandalf]

Ryanman, my general point is that America invaded a sovereign country illegally, thus allowing destabilisation that in turn allowed the conditions for Isis. Look at Libya today, it is hell and the West did that, not Gaddaffi. Of course, Isis was funded and trained by the Americans in an attempt to topple Assad's regime and then take back Iraq which gave them the boot. How can this warmongering nation be anywhere near the region considering it is funding every side? Terror doesn't emerge from a vacuum, it becomes this powerful because the very powerful gestate it.

Unless you get to the root of the problem, you are never going to solve the problem. Wiping out Isis does not erase the monsters (McCain for instance) that created them. They will farm them again somewhere else. I am against Isis, but how dare anyone get angry and not demand that these monsters go domestically. Cameron, Obama, Bush, Blair, et al....all of them need to be in the Hague. Why aren't they? This is serious, and people are going to let them get away with it....again?

People need to get serious and have a word with themselves. If you want a quiet life, you are not going to get it. There will be no future for your children at this rate. People have to rise up. Isis is a tiny part of the problem, the real problem is the beast that people hope will quietly go away and leave them alone. It won't go away as it feeds on you all and controls you. It creates terror and enslaves you. It is the media, the banks, the politics. It is the monster. Isis? You are scared of Isis? You voted for Isis, Isis is the elite. Get them out, all of them. Oppose them sure, but oppose them all.

[Dark Lord Al]

[QUOTE=Master;1269078]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

[ryanman]

[QUOTE=Dark Lord Al;1269221]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

I can respect that view for sure Al.

I just wonder how safe it would be for many in Gaza for example to show their anger, as they are well within reach of these killers. Just me theorizing though.

I've just read this -
BBC News - Alan Henning: Muslim call for release of UK hostage

A sentence from it -

More than 100 British Muslim imams, organisations and individuals wrote to express their "horror and revulsion" at the "senseless murder" of Briton David Haines and the threat to the life of Mr Henning.


*EDIT* Now I have misquoted too. Sorry.

[Dark Lord Al]

[QUOTE=ryanman;1269231]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

I can respect that view for sure Al.

I just wonder how safe it would be for many in Gaza for example to show their anger, as they are well within reach of these killers. Just me theorizing though.

I've just read this -
BBC News - Alan Henning: Muslim call for release of UK hostage

A sentence from it -

More than 100 British Muslim imams, organisations and individuals wrote to express their "horror and revulsion" at the "senseless murder" of Briton David Haines and the threat to the life of Mr Henning.


*EDIT* Now I have misquoted too. Sorry.

Buddy I'm not talking about Muslim leaders I'm talking about the man on the street , if they really wanted to show their disgust then let's see them marching the streets.
A few people saying it is not the same , it is simple Muslims are Muslims and that is the way they are , they never say in British , always Muslim.
They stick together whatever happens , we have had the Trojan horse where they where actually preaching hate against the British people , today in Australia they have arrested a number of Muslim fanatics , we need to put a stop to this , because they walk amounts us and we do nothing.

[Dia bando]

[QUOTE=Dark Lord Al;1269221]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

Al has a good point and the thing is they are very good condoning none Muslims, but there own
there lips are sealed. The Muslims if they want Fundamentalism are in the wrong Country, this
should not be tolerated by the powers that be.

[Gandalf]

Why should ordinary Muslims be protesting about Isis in numbers? Maybe the hysteria has been so whipped up that many ordinary Muslims are simply frightened. Frightened of a government that hates everybody in society and funds terror, frightened of prejudiced people who lap it all up, and frightened of what they are reading in the papers everyday. If you were to believe The Daily Mail etc, it is pretty scary stuff. Though I don't for a moment believe it is an accurate picture myself.

I think most people are struggling in a world that has been designed to make people suffer. By the same token children are being abused all around the country and gag orders are being put on care home investigations. You could also ask why don't parents protest about institutional paedophilia in large numbers? Why are British parents not concerned about the abuse of children? It's a scary topic and most people are not outspoken.

Again I wouldn't blame all parents when many are really struggling to survive, let alone get down to London and vent their anger for days at a time. I apply the same to moderate Muslims.

[Beanz]

Why should ordinary Muslims be protesting about Isis in numbers? Maybe the hysteria has been so whipped up that many ordinary Muslims are simply frightened. Frightened of a government that hates everybody in society and funds terror, frightened of prejudiced people who lap it all up, and frightened of what they are reading in the papers everyday. If you were to believe The Daily Mail etc, it is pretty scary stuff. Though I don't for a moment believe it is an accurate picture myself.

I think most people are struggling in a world that has been designed to make people suffer. By the same token children are being abused all around the country and gag orders are being put on care home investigations. You could also ask why don't parents protest about institutional paedophilia in large numbers? Why are British parents not concerned about the abuse of children? It's a scary topic and most people are not outspoken.

Again I wouldn't blame all parents when many are really struggling to survive, let alone get down to London and vent their anger for days at a time. I apply the same to moderate Muslims.

Ordinary Muslims should be protesting about Isis in numbers because large numbers of "ordinary" muslims are sympathetic to the idea of imposing their own ideology on others. If they do not speak out, then they are suggesting to their young men that the behaviour of Isis is understandable and excusable, just like you do on a regular basis. Maybe Muslims girls and women forced to hide their God given beauty under a veil and burqa are frightened. Maybe moderate Muslims trapped by a religion that teaches intolerance are frightened to speak out. Maybe ordinary people who are told that they are prejudiced for feeling uncomfortable in the presence of such censorship are frightened.

Why do you seek to diminish the intelligence of the Brtish people and portray them as all dumb tabloid readers ? Why do you continually change the subject ? Is it because you are seeking to pretend that the liberal tolerance that you enjoy, should not have to be extended to all citizens of the UK, and that victims of Islamic extremism, inside and out of the religion, somehow deserve it ?

[Gandalf]

Why should ordinary Muslims be protesting about Isis in numbers? Maybe the hysteria has been so whipped up that many ordinary Muslims are simply frightened. Frightened of a government that hates everybody in society and funds terror, frightened of prejudiced people who lap it all up, and frightened of what they are reading in the papers everyday. If you were to believe The Daily Mail etc, it is pretty scary stuff. Though I don't for a moment believe it is an accurate picture myself.

I think most people are struggling in a world that has been designed to make people suffer. By the same token children are being abused all around the country and gag orders are being put on care home investigations. You could also ask why don't parents protest about institutional paedophilia in large numbers? Why are British parents not concerned about the abuse of children? It's a scary topic and most people are not outspoken.

Again I wouldn't blame all parents when many are really struggling to survive, let alone get down to London and vent their anger for days at a time. I apply the same to moderate Muslims.

Ordinary Muslims should be protesting about Isis in numbers because large numbers of "ordinary" muslims are sympathetic to the idea of imposing their own ideology on others. If they do not speak out, then they are suggesting to their young men that the behaviour of Isis is understandable and excusable, just like you do on a regular basis. Maybe Muslims girls and women forced to hide their God given beauty under a veil and burqa are frightened. Maybe moderate Muslims trapped by a religion that teaches intolerance are frightened to speak out. Maybe ordinary people who are told that they are prejudiced for feeling uncomfortable in the presence of such censorship are frightened.

Why do you seek to diminish the intelligence of the Brtish people and portray them as all dumb tabloid readers ? Why do you continually change the subject ? Is it because you are seeking to pretend that the liberal tolerance that you enjoy, should not have to be extended to all citizens of the UK, and that victims of Islamic extremism, inside and out of the religion, somehow deserve it ?

I don't diminish the intelligence of ordinary people, but I know that you cannot be completely aware and active when you work hard to just feed your family and pay the rent. The glimpse of the paper or the nightly news is typically your information.

The reason I brought up child abuse is because it is easy to blame groups for not being active, but most people are not active. It isn't a Muslim trait, it is a societal trait. Where are the mass protests about child abuse? Or Isis? Or privatised health care?

Personally, I would love to see more activism. Here hundreds of thousands were protesting US beef. Beef! Day in day out. I didn't agree with the issue, but the numbers were impressive. Yet, in the UK there is a lot more apathy over far more serious issues. Only Gaza seems to wake anyone up.

[ryanman]

[QUOTE=Master;1269078]

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

Mine and Greenbeanz quotes are mixed up there.