Who is the next boxing superstar?

[Master]

Tyson fighting Holyfield in 88/89 would have been a great time for Tyson to win.

[El Kabong]

Every single thread always comes back to Mike Tyson and just how fucking unbeatable he was in his "prime" an era so mysterious people can't pin it down to an actual date

Was Mike Tyson a great boxer?

YES

Did Mike Tyson have a tough era?

HELL NO!


Back to the question at hand: Who will be the next boxing superstar?

NOT MIKE TYSON!!!!

[ykdadamaja]

Every single thread always comes back to Mike Tyson and just how fucking unbeatable he was in his "prime" an era so mysterious people can't pin it down to an actual date

Was Mike Tyson a great boxer?

YES

Did Mike Tyson have a tough era?

HELL NO!


Back to the question at hand: Who will be the next boxing superstar?

NOT MIKE TYSON!!!!

BS.... Tyson for Holmes's left overs to a large degree, but Holmes's leftovers weren't slouches. Many of them went on to hold titles or be seriously dangerous contenders.

Tyson also had really tough guys that went on to long careers- wasn't until Bowe and Holyfield came along, most notably Bowe, who separated what a real HW champion should be and be dominant at it.

Bowe should have never fought Holyfield the second time around, now looking back at it.

[El Kabong]

BS.... Tyson for Holmes's left overs to a large degree, but Holmes's leftovers weren't slouches. Many of them went on to hold titles or be seriously dangerous contenders.

Tyson also had really tough guys that went on to long careers- wasn't until Bowe and Holyfield came along, most notably Bowe, who separated what a real HW champion should be and be dominant at it.

Bowe should have never fought Holyfield the second time around, now looking back at it.

Guys BOTH Holmes and Tyson fought: Holyfield, Michael Spinks, Carl Williams, James 'Bonecrusher' Smith, Marvis Frazier, and Trevor Berbick. That's it and to be honest Holmes did better vs Holyfield and better vs Smith which can't be argued.

Tyson did NOT fight other guys that gave Holmes a hard time: Snipes, Witherspoon, Shavers, Norton either because they retired, drugs ruined their careers, or they never recaptured their form which earned them the shots vs Holmes but the point is Mike Tyson didn't have a great era of difficult fighters and when real fighters entered his division they took over.

Bowe's career peaked and plummeted while Tyson was in prison now had Tyson actually fought him what would have happened? We can speculate but the fight never happened. Look at the records of Holyfield and Lewis and see the names they fought which Tyson chose not to fight or just avoided for some reason. He could have had a lot more interesting than oh Tyson vs: Orlin Norris, Julius Francis, Lou Savarese, Brian Nielsen.

After prison, after Holyfield, Mike Tyson never tried to be "the baddest man on the planet" in terms of boxing ability. He was a sideshow, an act, and though semi-successful at boxing while doing that he never really took on a true test other than Ruddock, Holyfield, and Lewis after losing to Douglas.

[ross]

BS.... Tyson for Holmes's left overs to a large degree, but Holmes's leftovers weren't slouches. Many of them went on to hold titles or be seriously dangerous contenders.

Tyson also had really tough guys that went on to long careers- wasn't until Bowe and Holyfield came along, most notably Bowe, who separated what a real HW champion should be and be dominant at it.

Bowe should have never fought Holyfield the second time around, now looking back at it.

Guys BOTH Holmes and Tyson fought: Holyfield, Michael Spinks, Carl Williams, James 'Bonecrusher' Smith, Marvis Frazier, and Trevor Berbick. That's it and to be honest Holmes did better vs Holyfield and better vs Smith which can't be argued.

Tyson did NOT fight other guys that gave Holmes a hard time: Snipes, Witherspoon, Shavers, Norton either because they retired, drugs ruined their careers, or they never recaptured their form which earned them the shots vs Holmes but the point is Mike Tyson didn't have a great era of difficult fighters and when real fighters entered his division they took over.

Bowe's career peaked and plummeted while Tyson was in prison now had Tyson actually fought him what would have happened? We can speculate but the fight never happened. Look at the records of Holyfield and Lewis and see the names they fought which Tyson chose not to fight or just avoided for some reason. He could have had a lot more interesting than oh Tyson vs: Orlin Norris, Julius Francis, Lou Savarese, Brian Nielsen.

After prison, after Holyfield, Mike Tyson never tried to be "the baddest man on the planet" in terms of boxing ability. He was a sideshow, an act, and though semi-successful at boxing while doing that he never really took on a true test other than Ruddock, Holyfield, and Lewis after losing to Douglas.

You mean other than obliterating Spinks?

Forgot about him didnt you



Its painful to read Tyson bashing when putting comparisons out there. When would lewis have been to much for a prime Tyson? When he struggled against Mercer who Holmes best comfortably? Got knocked out by Mikes sparring partner? Got knocked out by Rahman?

This is the thing, both Holyfield and Lewis never had a long consistent dominant period where they didn't have some kind of problem with some kind of opponent that a fighter as quick and dangerous as that Mike Tyson wouldn't have been able to capitalise on. The man that beat Holmes twice couldn't even get out of the first round with Mike. An older Holmes beat Mercer, pushed Holyfield and was robbed against McCall but he couldn't get to the half way point with that Mike.

[El Kabong]

You mean other than obliterating Spinks?

Forgot about him didnt you



Its painful to read Tyson bashing when putting comparisons out there. When would lewis have been to much for a prime Tyson? When he struggled against Mercer who Holmes best comfortably? Got knocked out by Mikes sparring partner? Got knocked out by Rahman?

This is the thing, both Holyfield and Lewis never had a long consistent dominant period where they didn't have some kind of problem with some kind of opponent that a fighter as quick and dangerous as that Mike Tyson wouldn't have been able to capitalise on. The man that beat Holmes twice couldn't even get out of the first round with Mike. An older Holmes beat Mercer, pushed Holyfield and was robbed against McCall but he couldn't get to the half way point with that Mike.

.....again


Lewis actually FOUGHT Ray Mercer....Mike Tyson did NOT.

Oliver McCall had his moments in sparring with Mike Tyson as well...how would the figth have gone? We don't know as Mike Tyson NEVER FOUGHT McCall.

Hasim Rahman...how would Tyson have done against him? Well that's a good question as he's YET ANOTHER HEAVYWEIGHT MIKE TYSON DID NOT FIGHT!

Older Holmes blah blah blah blah....maybe Lennox Lewis should have fought the great Buster Douglas

Lennox Lewis fought David Tua and beat him handily how did Tyson do vs ....oh that's right he DIDN'T FIGHT HIM!

Evander fought Riddick Bowe 3 times how did he do vs ....OH THAT'S RIGHT TYSON DIDN'T FIGHT HIM!

Evander fought Michael Moorer twice how did Tyson do vs...DIDN'T FUCKING FIGHT HIM EITHER!

Now of course being the Tyson Retard you are you'll no doubt say "Well Tyson would have KO'd all of them, he was God in human form when he boxed" completely looking past the flaws of his style, personal life, and psyche.

[ross]

Mike Tyson was a different era.

The fact his old opponents he wiped the floor with can go in to the nineties and have good success over people that were supposedly fighters who could handle Mike shows how good Mike was.

When Lewis beat Tyson it was 16 years after Mike had won his first world title.

When Joe louis lost to Marciano it was only 14 years later. Different eras.

[mikeeod]

Holmes didn't push him to a decision, he used every bit of heart, guile and trick at his disposal to SURVIVE to the decision. There is a difference. Regardless, the bottom line is that when Tyson was favored to beat Evander he was broken mentally and knocked out. Any excuse or abstract thought process you want to use is meaningless. Also, the majority of the boxing public agrees that Tyson feasted in inferior competition, and that Holmes, Lewis, Evander were all superior fighters during their prime years. U r definitively a HUGE Tyson fan, which is a good things as I think Mike is a good guy for the most part. We will just agree to disagree I guess...

[ross]

Holmes didn't push him to a decision, he used every bit of heart, guile and trick at his disposal to SURVIVE to the decision. There is a difference. Regardless, the bottom line is that when Tyson was favored to beat Evander he was broken mentally and knocked out. Any excuse or abstract thought process you want to use is meaningless. Also, the majority of the boxing public agrees that Tyson feasted in inferior competition, and that Holmes, Lewis, Evander were all superior fighters during their prime years. U r definitively a HUGE Tyson fan, which is a good things as I think Mike is a good guy for the most part. We will just agree to disagree I guess...

No. What you are doing is refusing to accept that some of the same fighters Mike beat with ease in his actual prime gave the fighters you want to think that are better than Mike a harder fight years later. Thats ignorance.

Mike fought. Holyfield 10 years after winning the title and 4 years enforced absence. He was not the same fighter that even beat Alex Stewart in a round. The same Alex Stewart that was robbed against Foreman and took Holyfield, Moorer and Maskaev rounds.

[mikeeod]

Holmes didn't push him to a decision, he used every bit of heart, guile and trick at his disposal to SURVIVE to the decision. There is a difference. Regardless, the bottom line is that when Tyson was favored to beat Evander he was broken mentally and knocked out. Any excuse or abstract thought process you want to use is meaningless. Also, the majority of the boxing public agrees that Tyson feasted in inferior competition, and that Holmes, Lewis, Evander were all superior fighters during their prime years. U r definitively a HUGE Tyson fan, which is a good things as I think Mike is a good guy for the most part. We will just agree to disagree I guess...

No. What you are doing is refusing to accept that some of the same fighters Mike beat with ease in his actual prime gave the fighters you want to think that are better than Mike a harder fight years later. Thats ignorance.

Mike fought. Holyfield 10 years after winning the title and 4 years enforced absence. He was not the same fighter that even beat Alex Stewart in a round. The same Alex Stewart that was robbed against Foreman and took Holyfield, Moorer and Maskaev rounds.

Alright, I see what u r saying now. Not their head to head match up, that was meaningless. We need to compare how each did vs similar opposition and u feel that Tyson won more impressively against Holmes and Stewart. You mentioned Stewart specifically as proof, so we can assume that u feel that Tyson was prime. Well, Evander destroyed the prime Douglas who dominated the undefeated and prime Tyson. Lewis and Evander both performed better vs each other than Tyson ever did. He didn't last the distance with either. Hopefully putting it like that helps u.

[Master]

Holmes didn't push him to a decision, he used every bit of heart, guile and trick at his disposal to SURVIVE to the decision. There is a difference. Regardless, the bottom line is that when Tyson was favored to beat Evander he was broken mentally and knocked out. Any excuse or abstract thought process you want to use is meaningless. Also, the majority of the boxing public agrees that Tyson feasted in inferior competition, and that Holmes, Lewis, Evander were all superior fighters during their prime years. U r definitively a HUGE Tyson fan, which is a good things as I think Mike is a good guy for the most part. We will just agree to disagree I guess...

No. What you are doing is refusing to accept that some of the same fighters Mike beat with ease in his actual prime gave the fighters you want to think that are better than Mike a harder fight years later. Thats ignorance.

Mike fought. Holyfield 10 years after winning the title and 4 years enforced absence. He was not the same fighter that even beat Alex Stewart in a round. The same Alex Stewart that was robbed against Foreman and took Holyfield, Moorer and Maskaev rounds.

Alright, I see what u r saying now. Not their head to head match up, that was meaningless. We need to compare how each did vs similar opposition and u feel that Tyson won more impressively against Holmes and Stewart. You mentioned Stewart specifically as proof, so we can assume that u feel that Tyson was prime. Well, Evander destroyed the prime Douglas who dominated the undefeated and prime Tyson. Lewis and Evander both performed better vs each other than Tyson ever did. He didn't last the distance with either. Hopefully putting it like that helps u.

Prime Douglas who came in grossly overweight and sat on his fat ass and counted the money.

[mikeeod]

I get it, when Evander scores the win then we put in the extra information for context. When Tyson scores the win, we just look at the win and take it at face value. Good way to analyze fighters and their rankings. Seems logical to me.

[Master]

Holmes didn't push him to a decision, he used every bit of heart, guile and trick at his disposal to SURVIVE to the decision. There is a difference. Regardless, the bottom line is that when Tyson was favored to beat Evander he was broken mentally and knocked out. Any excuse or abstract thought process you want to use is meaningless. Also, the majority of the boxing public agrees that Tyson feasted in inferior competition, and that Holmes, Lewis, Evander were all superior fighters during their prime years. U r definitively a HUGE Tyson fan, which is a good things as I think Mike is a good guy for the most part. We will just agree to disagree I guess...

What majority of boxing public?

[mikeeod]

Holmes didn't push him to a decision, he used every bit of heart, guile and trick at his disposal to SURVIVE to the decision. There is a difference. Regardless, the bottom line is that when Tyson was favored to beat Evander he was broken mentally and knocked out. Any excuse or abstract thought process you want to use is meaningless. Also, the majority of the boxing public agrees that Tyson feasted in inferior competition, and that Holmes, Lewis, Evander were all superior fighters during their prime years. U r definitively a HUGE Tyson fan, which is a good things as I think Mike is a good guy for the most part. We will just agree to disagree I guess...

What majority of boxing public?

Um, the majority of knowledgeable individuals who follow the sport. I have seen numerous historical rankings of fighters, and I can't remember any that have Tyson ahead of Evander. Have u seen many that rank Mike higher?!?