Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago

[Manos de Piedra]

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

Nobody considers it a great win for Floyd. But JMM has admitted himself he has no chance against Floyd and that Floyd would beat PAC. Just like Hatton said Floyd would beat Psc. And Mosley said. And Delahoya said. Who has said PAC would beat Floyd other than fans, Bob Arum, and Roach? We know Roach is a liar and Arum hahahaha, look through the threads and you will see fans lie about Floyd. So who really believes PAC would beat Floyd?

To add to that list many sparring partners who have sparred both men also pick Floyd to win.

[ninjaspy3]

Pacquiao doesn't use a swarmer style like Maidana, which I think is what caused Mayweather much of the trouble. I think Floyd is getting older, so that plays a part too, but since Pacquiao won't be shoving Mayweather into the corner and swinging punches from high and low, I think Mayweather will have the opportunity to use more of his outside boxing skills which I think he prefers at this point.

[zhubin]

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

[IamInuit]

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

[imp]

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!

Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!

All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!

[imp]

Imagine if floyd had four close fights with Castillo at different primes of his life and on the last fight he got knocked out...are we to believe that an undefeated manny wouldn't destroy a wife beating floyd with 5 losses?!

Flip the script and take a look at how stupid some of you all sound when the shoe is on the other foot.

Smh.

[IamInuit]

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!

Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!

All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!

Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.

[imp]

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!

Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!

All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!

Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.

Its pretty obvious that manny should have changed trainers when he couldn't crack the marquez code.

Floyd is a far superior counter puncher than marquez and better in EVERY skillset including chin.

Those videos highlight that floyd is not perfect and can be bothered with speed but guess what...he still adjusts and ends up winning!!!

And thats the difference between floyd and manny..floyd has a second gear but manny is stuck on auto.

[imp]

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

[La Cucaracha]

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

You could argue Floyd should have lost 2 of those fights

[IamInuit]

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

Floyd is lucky that he had his homer Cortez in there for Castillo 2, Hatton and Ortiz or the surprise people got from how well Maidana did may not have been a surprise at all.

In the end this is not the same fight as it would have been even 2 years ago let alone 4 or 5. Manny's chances have increased a great deal and his drive is going to be incredible vs Floyds hubris. And if its going to be as easy as some super fans seem to think it is then there will be nothing to brag about. He simply beat another no hoper.

[Sleepwalker]

Bump...

[Manju]

I disagree...but its worth considering if PacMan's decline has been exaggerated. After stopping ODLH, Hatton, and Cotto, he hasn't seen a KO, other than his own.

But a lot of his opponents simply did not come to fight. Clottey instead showed-off his (admittedly remarkable) ability to cover his entire upper body with his arms, and stay that way for an entire fight. Mosely ran...except for between rounds. Then he hugged, kissed and whispered sweet nothings. I exaggerate, but seriously, the guy kept trying to touch gloves and make various sportsmanlike gestures of good will. He was not there to fight.

Algieri was there to survive and, to a large degree, so was Bradley. It's hard to KO guys who don't throw punches. Only Rios and Margarito do not fit this paradigm. But Margarito was pretty beaten up. I forget what happened with Rios but iirc the fight was not competitive.

This brings us along to JMM, who obviously came to fight...albeit via counterpunching. But lost in the brutal KO-ending is the fact that Marquez's face was almost falling off at the time. He was bloodied, disfigured, and having a hard time breathing. I don't know how much longer he could've went on had he not delivered that perfectly timed uppercut.

PBF will come to fight. Not brawl, obviously. Nor will he stand straight up like ODLH...or come straight forward like Hatton. He will fight carefully and with precision like, well, JMM...except with superior defense and frankly superior all-around skill. That makes him the favorite of course, especially if we're using the last JMM-Pac fight as a reference. But we shouldn't forget how close JMM came to being stopped himself.