Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[mikeeod]

You are definitely being biased against Manny and not putting into context when the wins occurred. Manny's top wins:
JMM: Not the blown up lightweight that Floyd beat at 147, Manny fought the prime counter puncher at a weight that suited both. He fought him multiple times in JMM prime, while he was rated P4P. JMM is a HOFer easy.
Barrera: Coming off of a dominating win of Hamed and close win over Morales, he was P4P top 5 and a HUGE favorite to win. Pac destroyed him during his peak and at his best weight. HOFer.
Morales: P4P ranked when they fought the first time, Manny lost a close decision but came back to destroy him twice. Another HOF fighter Pac fought during his prime.
Cotto: One loss to Margo, a much bigger man and still viewed as in his prime and dangerous. This is a very underrated win, especially considering how Pac stopped him. HOFer.
Bradley: Ranked P4P #3 at the time and undefeated. Manny beat him twice (don't care what the judges said) during Bradley's prime.
Hatton: lesser version than the one Floyd beat, but one look at that fight n u can see it wouldn't have mattered. Manny destroys Hatton any time they fight like that.

[erics44]

You are definitely being biased against Manny and not putting into context when the wins occurred. Manny's top wins:
JMM: Not the blown up lightweight that Floyd beat at 147, Manny fought the prime counter puncher at a weight that suited both. He fought him multiple times in JMM prime, while he was rated P4P. JMM is a HOFer easy.
Barrera: Coming off of a dominating win of Hamed and close win over Morales, he was P4P top 5 and a HUGE favorite to win. Pac destroyed him during his peak and at his best weight. HOFer.
Morales: P4P ranked when they fought the first time, Manny lost a close decision but came back to destroy him twice. Another HOF fighter Pac fought during his prime.
Cotto: One loss to Margo, a much bigger man and still viewed as in his prime and dangerous. This is a very underrated win, especially considering how Pac stopped him. HOFer.
Bradley: Ranked P4P #3 at the time and undefeated. Manny beat him twice (don't care what the judges said) during Bradley's prime.
Hatton: lesser version than the one Floyd beat, but one look at that fight n u can see it wouldn't have mattered. Manny destroys Hatton any time they fight like that.

dont get carried away

[Fenster]

Manny had a HOF career before he even got to Floyd's competition. When it comes to common opponents, whatever the excuses, Manny beat them in a more emphatic manner.

Floyd wins

Oscar - SD
Marquez - UD
Shane - UD
Hatton - TKO 10
Cotto - UD


Manny wins

Oscar - TKO 8
Marquez - PTS x 2
Shane - UD
Hatton - KO 2
Cotto - TKO 12

Take out Marquez and Manny has barely lost a round against these guys.

[Beanflicker]

Manny had a HOF career before he even got to Floyd's competition. When it comes to common opponents, whatever the excuses, Manny beat them in a more emphatic manner.

That's true, but Floyd had a HOF career before Manny too. Floyd and Manny are two ATGs, no one could deny that.

But in terms of overall competition, neither is head and shoulders above the other.

[Fenster]

Floyd had a big career before Manny but not as big. Manny was part of a thrilling rivalry with future hall of famers - Barrera, Morales and Marquez whilst Floyd, after struggling with Castillo, went off the radar a bit. It wasn't until he got his breakout fight with Gatti that his stardom started to snowball.

They are both great fighters to me, both have great records.

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

[Beanflicker]

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

I'm not sure what would make anyone think that.

I don't see any real difference in level of opposition, and nobody has really explained to me why Pac's opposition was any better.

Floyd has surpassed Pac in every category you could think of, besides likeability.

If both retired tomorrow, we've seen Pac beaten and/or knocked out in every stage of his career, whereas Floyd has never lost. Floyd was the bigger star, the bigger draw, made a lot more money and has never had a true equal in the ring.

Pac beat up a prime Barrera and beat (and lost to) a Morales that was close to the end of his rope. That puts him head and shoulders above Floyd? I just can't see it.

[mikeeod]

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

I'm not sure what would make anyone think that.

I don't see any real difference in level of opposition, and nobody has really explained to me why Pac's opposition was any better.

Floyd has surpassed Pac in every category you could think of, besides likeability.

If both retired tomorrow, we've seen Pac beaten and/or knocked out in every stage of his career, whereas Floyd has never lost. Floyd was the bigger star, the bigger draw, made a lot more money and has never had a true equal in the ring.

Pac beat up a prime Barrera and beat (and lost to) a Morales that was close to the end of his rope. That puts him head and shoulders above Floyd? I just can't see it.

I already went down the list buddy. Floyd's top wins r Chico, Hatton and Castillo. All three were prime, Chico n Hatton P4P, Castillo wasn't ranked P4P when they fought and he should have won the first fight vs Floyd. So, Manny has taken on better competition at every stage of his career, and when u do that u end up with losses. I'm writing this on my phone so when I get home tonight I will gladly write a more inclusive and detailed break down. Bottom Line: Floyd fought two guys ranked P4P at the time he fought them. Manny fought multiple guys who I listed ranked when he fought them. He also fought much bigger men who were favorites to beat him at the time of the fight. If u can't see it, nothing is going to change ur mind. U just want to feel Floyd fought better guys.

[Beanz]

I think in the OP you are being totally unfair to Manny. You have to really stretch to so dismiss his opposition so readily and then minimise his achievements. Your are weighting your response to compensate for what you think is a slight against Floyd.

[Fenster]

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

Floyd was the bigger star, the bigger draw, made a lot more money and has never had a true equal in the ring.

You started the thread by discussing the quality of their opponents, at the time they faced them, but are now making the point that Floyd is superior because he made more money (lol).

Leonard was a bigger star, bigger draw and made more money than Duran but he's not rated higher than him on any serious historian/fan all-time great list.

[Beanz]

Without Cortez or blinkers on though Mannys win is Far more impressive. By a country mile. Scared the krap out of me. Even though against Floyd was his first KO I wasn't worried for his welfare like against Manny.

[ruthless rocco]

Manny had a HOF career before he even got to Floyd's competition. When it comes to common opponents, whatever the excuses, Manny beat them in a more emphatic manner.

Floyd wins

Oscar - SD
Marquez - UD
Shane - UD
Hatton - TKO 10
Cotto - UD


Manny wins

Oscar - TKO 8
Marquez - PTS x 2
Shane - UD
Hatton - KO 2
Cotto - TKO 12

Take out Marquez and Manny has barely lost a round against these guys.

What if we take steroids and other PEDs out of the equation...?

[Beanz]

Manny had a HOF career before he even got to Floyd's competition. When it comes to common opponents, whatever the excuses, Manny beat them in a more emphatic manner.

Floyd wins

Oscar - SD
Marquez - UD
Shane - UD
Hatton - TKO 10
Cotto - UD


Manny wins

Oscar - TKO 8
Marquez - PTS x 2
Shane - UD
Hatton - KO 2
Cotto - TKO 12

Take out Marquez and Manny has barely lost a round against these guys.

What if we take steroids and other PEDs out of the equation...?

Don't think you should hold Floyds PED use against him

[Beanflicker]

Don't think you should hold Floyds PED use against him

Floyd's hand injections aren't against the rules, though.

[Beanflicker]

You are definitely being biased against Manny and not putting into context when the wins occurred. Manny's top wins:
JMM: Not the blown up lightweight that Floyd beat at 147, Manny fought the prime counter puncher at a weight that suited both. He fought him multiple times in JMM prime, while he was rated P4P. JMM is a HOFer easy.
Barrera: Coming off of a dominating win of Hamed and close win over Morales, he was P4P top 5 and a HUGE favorite to win. Pac destroyed him during his peak and at his best weight. HOFer.
Morales: P4P ranked when they fought the first time, Manny lost a close decision but came back to destroy him twice. Another HOF fighter Pac fought during his prime.
Cotto: One loss to Margo, a much bigger man and still viewed as in his prime and dangerous. This is a very underrated win, especially considering how Pac stopped him. HOFer.
Bradley: Ranked P4P #3 at the time and undefeated. Manny beat him twice (don't care what the judges said) during Bradley's prime.
Hatton: lesser version than the one Floyd beat, but one look at that fight n u can see it wouldn't have mattered. Manny destroys Hatton any time they fight like that.

JMM fought Floyd at WW, weighing 142, and got completely dominated. JMM fought Manny twice at WW, weighing 142 and 143, in which he was robbed in the first fight and knocked Manny spark out in the second.

People talk about how JMM was so small when he fought Floyd and then magically grew into a true WW when he fought Pac. No, he weighed the same when he fought Pac twice as he did when he fought Floyd. Explain to me the difference.

As far as Barrera goes, yup great win that I have absolutely no problem with. Cotto was always dangerous but what I said still stands: his stock had dropped considerably after getting destroyed by Margarito and then looking very mediocre vs Clottey. That's not my opinion, that's just a fact. Morales was a great win (but Morales also outboxed Manny in the first fight).

[Maravilla2012]

You are definitely being biased against Manny and not putting into context when the wins occurred. Manny's top wins:
JMM: Not the blown up lightweight that Floyd beat at 147, Manny fought the prime counter puncher at a weight that suited both. He fought him multiple times in JMM prime, while he was rated P4P. JMM is a HOFer easy.
Barrera: Coming off of a dominating win of Hamed and close win over Morales, he was P4P top 5 and a HUGE favorite to win. Pac destroyed him during his peak and at his best weight. HOFer.
Morales: P4P ranked when they fought the first time, Manny lost a close decision but came back to destroy him twice. Another HOF fighter Pac fought during his prime.
Cotto: One loss to Margo, a much bigger man and still viewed as in his prime and dangerous. This is a very underrated win, especially considering how Pac stopped him. HOFer.
Bradley: Ranked P4P #3 at the time and undefeated. Manny beat him twice (don't care what the judges said) during Bradley's prime.
Hatton: lesser version than the one Floyd beat, but one look at that fight n u can see it wouldn't have mattered. Manny destroys Hatton any time they fight like that.

JMM fought Floyd at WW, weighing 142, and got completely dominated. JMM fought Manny twice at WW, weighing 142 and 143, in which he was robbed in the first fight and knocked Manny spark out in the second.

People talk about how JMM was so small when he fought Floyd and then magically grew into a true WW when he fought Pac. No, he weighed the same when he fought Pac twice as he did when he fought Floyd. Explain to me the difference.

As far as Barrera goes, yup great win that I have absolutely no problem with. Cotto was always dangerous but what I said still stands: his stock had dropped considerably after getting destroyed by Margarito and then looking very mediocre vs Clottey. That's not my opinion, that's just a fact. Morales was a great win (but Morales also outboxed Manny in the first fight).

How bout that Marquez had to jump up two weight classes just for Floyd to not even attempt to make weight and just paid the fine. Floyd is not the same size of Marquez or Pac ( who are both small at 147). Dont be so quick to discredit Pacs win against Oscar cause he had to go down but praise Floyd for making Marquez move up two. Plus dont forget that Pac jumped up two weight classes to fight de la Hoya it was a big risk for him too.