Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[Fenster]

Manny had a HOF career before he even got to Floyd's competition. When it comes to common opponents, whatever the excuses, Manny beat them in a more emphatic manner.

Floyd wins

Oscar - SD
Marquez - UD
Shane - UD
Hatton - TKO 10
Cotto - UD


Manny wins

Oscar - TKO 8
Marquez - PTS x 2
Shane - UD
Hatton - KO 2
Cotto - TKO 12

Take out Marquez and Manny has barely lost a round against these guys.

[Beanflicker]

Manny had a HOF career before he even got to Floyd's competition. When it comes to common opponents, whatever the excuses, Manny beat them in a more emphatic manner.

That's true, but Floyd had a HOF career before Manny too. Floyd and Manny are two ATGs, no one could deny that.

But in terms of overall competition, neither is head and shoulders above the other.

[Fenster]

Floyd had a big career before Manny but not as big. Manny was part of a thrilling rivalry with future hall of famers - Barrera, Morales and Marquez whilst Floyd, after struggling with Castillo, went off the radar a bit. It wasn't until he got his breakout fight with Gatti that his stardom started to snowball.

They are both great fighters to me, both have great records.

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

[Beanflicker]

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

I'm not sure what would make anyone think that.

I don't see any real difference in level of opposition, and nobody has really explained to me why Pac's opposition was any better.

Floyd has surpassed Pac in every category you could think of, besides likeability.

If both retired tomorrow, we've seen Pac beaten and/or knocked out in every stage of his career, whereas Floyd has never lost. Floyd was the bigger star, the bigger draw, made a lot more money and has never had a true equal in the ring.

Pac beat up a prime Barrera and beat (and lost to) a Morales that was close to the end of his rope. That puts him head and shoulders above Floyd? I just can't see it.

[mikeeod]

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

I'm not sure what would make anyone think that.

I don't see any real difference in level of opposition, and nobody has really explained to me why Pac's opposition was any better.

Floyd has surpassed Pac in every category you could think of, besides likeability.

If both retired tomorrow, we've seen Pac beaten and/or knocked out in every stage of his career, whereas Floyd has never lost. Floyd was the bigger star, the bigger draw, made a lot more money and has never had a true equal in the ring.

Pac beat up a prime Barrera and beat (and lost to) a Morales that was close to the end of his rope. That puts him head and shoulders above Floyd? I just can't see it.

I already went down the list buddy. Floyd's top wins r Chico, Hatton and Castillo. All three were prime, Chico n Hatton P4P, Castillo wasn't ranked P4P when they fought and he should have won the first fight vs Floyd. So, Manny has taken on better competition at every stage of his career, and when u do that u end up with losses. I'm writing this on my phone so when I get home tonight I will gladly write a more inclusive and detailed break down. Bottom Line: Floyd fought two guys ranked P4P at the time he fought them. Manny fought multiple guys who I listed ranked when he fought them. He also fought much bigger men who were favorites to beat him at the time of the fight. If u can't see it, nothing is going to change ur mind. U just want to feel Floyd fought better guys.

[Beanflicker]

I'm writing this on my phone so when I get home tonight I will gladly write a more inclusive and detailed break down. Bottom Line: Floyd fought two guys ranked P4P at the time he fought them. Manny fought multiple guys who I listed ranked when he fought them. He also fought much bigger men who were favorites to beat him at the time of the fight.

Well I look forward to your breakdown.

I think you're wrong that Floyd only fought two guys ranked p4p at the time he fought them. I think you might be surprised.

People dog Floyd for fighting Mosley, but did you know that he was the #2 ranked WW at the time and the #3 ranked p4p of the time by Ring magazine (behind only Pac and Floyd)?

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 2009 - BoxRec

[mikeeod]

I'm writing this on my phone so when I get home tonight I will gladly write a more inclusive and detailed break down. Bottom Line: Floyd fought two guys ranked P4P at the time he fought them. Manny fought multiple guys who I listed ranked when he fought them. He also fought much bigger men who were favorites to beat him at the time of the fight.

Well I look forward to your breakdown.

I think you're wrong that Floyd only fought two guys ranked p4p at the time he fought them. I think you might be surprised.

People dog Floyd for fighting Mosley, but did you know that he was the #2 ranked WW at the time and the #3 ranked p4p of the time by Ring magazine (behind only Pac and Floyd)?

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 2009 - BoxRec

Did not remember that Shane was ranked P4P #3 at that time, good catch! Still, Even including Shane who is a HOFer, Manny beat and fought more top ranked guys during their prime. I will break it down later. Good catch, I tip my hat to u.

[Beanz]

I think in the OP you are being totally unfair to Manny. You have to really stretch to so dismiss his opposition so readily and then minimise his achievements. Your are weighting your response to compensate for what you think is a slight against Floyd.

[Beanflicker]

I think in the OP you are being totally unfair to Manny. You have to really stretch to so dismiss his opposition so readily and then minimise his achievements.

Fair enough, what in particular was unfair in what I said?

[Beanz]

I think in the OP you are being totally unfair to Manny. You have to really stretch to so dismiss his opposition so readily and then minimise his achievements.

Fair enough, what in particular was unfair in what I said?

The term "Floyd leftover" is highly pejorative. He did not finish them or make the job any easier for Manny. In many cases Manny did what Floyd could not.

[Fenster]

I think history will look more favourably on Pac though.

Floyd was the bigger star, the bigger draw, made a lot more money and has never had a true equal in the ring.

You started the thread by discussing the quality of their opponents, at the time they faced them, but are now making the point that Floyd is superior because he made more money (lol).

Leonard was a bigger star, bigger draw and made more money than Duran but he's not rated higher than him on any serious historian/fan all-time great list.

[Beanflicker]

You started the thread by discussing the quality of their opponents, at the time they faced them, but are now making the point that Floyd is superior because he made more money (lol).

Leonard was a bigger star, bigger draw and made more money than Duran but he's not rated higher than him on any serious historian/fan all-time great list.

No, that was a separate discussion that we were having that diverted from the main topic. If you want to really talk about making irrelevant points, we could talk about how I started a thread about who faced a higher quality of opposition, to which you responded by talking about who did better against the common opponents they faced (lol).

Leonard for sure was a bigger fighter than Duran and deserved to be ranked higher.

[Fenster]

You started the thread by discussing the quality of their opponents, at the time they faced them, but are now making the point that Floyd is superior because he made more money (lol).

Leonard was a bigger star, bigger draw and made more money than Duran but he's not rated higher than him on any serious historian/fan all-time great list.

No, that was a separate discussion that we were having that diverted from the main topic. If you want to really talk about making irrelevant points, we could talk about how I started a thread about who faced a higher quality of opposition, to which you responded by talking about who did better against the common opponents they faced (lol).

Leonard for sure was a bigger fighter than Duran and deserved to be ranked higher.

Hold up. Why did you mention their common opponents if they were irrelevant? You asked a question. If it's important to highlight that Floyd beat superior versions of these men then it's understandable that Manny beating them in a far more devastating fashion could sway people to believe he's the better fighter, right?

I then pointed out that Pac was in all-time great memorable battles with Marquez, Barrera and Morales before he ever became a possible rival to Floyd. Therefore looking at Pac's opposition outside of the common opponents, there's an argument that he's faced stronger competition, regardless of the fact he's been whopped.

Show me where Leonard is ranked higher than Duran by any reputable boxing publication/historian?

[Beanz]

Without Cortez or blinkers on though Mannys win is Far more impressive. By a country mile. Scared the krap out of me. Even though against Floyd was his first KO I wasn't worried for his welfare like against Manny.

[Beanflicker]

Without Cortez or blinkers on though Mannys win is Far more impressive. By a country mile. Scared the krap out of me. Even though against Floyd was his first KO I wasn't worried for his welfare like against Manny.

Well no doubt Manny's win was more violent and dominant.

Larry Holmes' win over Ali was more dominant than Frazier's, but we don't assign more value to Holmes for that.