the end of the world

[SlimTrae]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.
I respect you saying "probably" as you haven't walked in the shoes of a doubter or athiest, so I will end with a "probably"

The skit is probably showing a person with conviction to find the truth. Not side against it, that is how I took it, but we all have perspectives as Dre said.

Could it be that some christians, become muslims?
Some muslims become Jehovah Witness?
Some Budhists become Christians...and any of the above can find an emptiness in all of them, nothing nurtering their spirit, so the religous can turn athiest more so than being raised one, agree?

As those who find a belief, usually raise questions about what they really don't know (the end of the world- the topic thread) while the athiest is mostly concerned about what they do know live, love and respect those while in the world.

Seems to me between Jews , Christians and Muslims, they have created enough strife and wars that would turn some people athiests as athiests wage war against whom? Each other IMO.

Muslims or those in the name of Islam have defended their faith with murderous organizations ISIS, before that, Al Queada, then Hamas, then Hezbollah, before that DAWA party –why by the way is now the government under Maliki in Iraq- remember when they held elections with the blue-inked finger back in 05,06? Yup they took off the bomb backpacks and put on the political cap- And per Lt. Boykin of the US Army: God put President Bush in power to do that?

Christians and their 30 year war that ravaged Europe.
Martin Luther and his desire to reform the church creating a two-tier system: Protestants & Lutherans.

King James accepting an English version, yet oversaw the murder of the one who wrote the first English translation: William Tyndale- he burned him at the stake-with his own bibles. Yet history shows us the Puritans aka Pilgrims came to American with that Bible and not the KJV.

So denominations follow like-Roger Williams came to America and who persecuted him?

Yup the Puritans, so he fled to the savage Indians under the guidance of Chief Massassoit.
The the Quakers followed,him, then the Amish..none could find justice under the Puritans- yet the puritans claimed that is why they left England and fled to Holland_To serve God the right way.

Point is:Notice how each individual who claims to serve God, has a problem with the next person. But the atheist aren’t the ones killing the so-called righteous- it’s the self righteous

and the Jews and the OT? Just a few...ok just a few to show how some believers turn away from religion...some of us embrace spirituality, while yes others turn athiestic or agnostic.

Exodus- God drowns men in 600 charriots
Exodus 32:27-27 3,000 die
Leviticus 10:1-3 God.. not a man-burns Aarons son…to death
Lev 24:10:23 stoning to death for blasphemy

42 boys were eaten by 2 bears because they called an old man- baldheaded- imagine the grief of the mothers…apparently the God felt it was just…I wonder what yo’ mama jokes do to God..hmmmm

Number 16: 35 250 men killed for burnin incense
Number 16:49 14,700 people question why God is killing so much…so he kills them..so much for ask and it shall to told..
Number 25:1-11 God sends a plague kills 24,000 people- so much for claiming Egyptians were evil, they just enslaved…not killed.
Numbers 31:1-35 God orders 6 kings killed, +males and non-virgin females --save the untouched cootchie, wow that sounds righteous

Deuteronomy 2:33-34 God orders the death of men, women..and get this: children in 60 cities. Damn the kids?

Joshua 8:1-25 12,000 in the city of Ai are ordered killed.
Joshua 10:28-42 all cities to the south are to be anhiliated.
Joshua 11:8-12 now the cities to the north…slaughtered.
Judges 1:4 the canaanites and Perizzites= 10,000 damn that’s genocide isn’t it?
Judges 1:19 The lord was with them all the way but he couldn’t give them the victory because get this its says---they had chariots of Iron

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Per Hindu, Budhist, Muslim, Christian and then some all claiming God is with them...then told God will end the world, while us non-believers feel the world will keep on going...but the regious zealots... well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

[pacfan]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.
I respect you saying "probably" as you haven't walked in the shoes of a doubter or athiest, so I will end with a "probably"

The skit is probably showing a person with conviction to find the truth. Not side against it, that is how I took it, but we all have perspectives as Dre said.

Could it be that some christians, become muslims?
Some muslims become Jehovah Witness?
Some Budhists become Christians...and any of the above can find an emptiness in all of them, nothing nurtering their spirit, so the religous can turn athiest more so than being raised one, agree?

As those who find a belief, usually raise questions about what they really don't know (the end of the world- the topic thread) while the athiest is mostly concerned about what they do know live, love and respect those while in the world.

Seems to me between Jews , Christians and Muslims, they have created enough strife and wars that would turn some people athiests as athiests wage war against whom? Each other IMO.

Muslims or those in the name of Islam have defended their faith with murderous organizations ISIS, before that, Al Queada, then Hamas, then Hezbollah, before that DAWA party –why by the way is now the government under Maliki in Iraq- remember when they held elections with the blue-inked finger back in 05,06? Yup they took off the bomb backpacks and put on the political cap- And per Lt. Boykin of the US Army: God put President Bush in power to do that?

Christians and their 30 year war that ravaged Europe.
Martin Luther and his desire to reform the church creating a two-tier system: Protestants & Lutherans.

King James accepting an English version, yet oversaw the murder of the one who wrote the first English translation: William Tyndale- he burned him at the stake-with his own bibles. Yet history shows us the Puritans aka Pilgrims came to American with that Bible and not the KJV.

So denominations follow like-Roger Williams came to America and who persecuted him?

Yup the Puritans, so he fled to the savage Indians under the guidance of Chief Massassoit.
The the Quakers followed,him, then the Amish..none could find justice under the Puritans- yet the puritans claimed that is why they left England and fled to Holland_To serve God the right way.

Point is:Notice how each individual who claims to serve God, has a problem with the next person. But the atheist aren’t the ones killing the so-called righteous- it’s the self righteous

and the Jews and the OT? Just a few...ok just a few to show how some believers turn away from religion...some of us embrace spirituality, while yes others turn athiestic or agnostic.

Exodus- God drowns men in 600 charriots
Exodus 32:27-27 3,000 die
Leviticus 10:1-3 God.. not a man-burns Aarons son…to death
Lev 24:10:23 stoning to death for blasphemy

42 boys were eaten by 2 bears because they called an old man- baldheaded- imagine the grief of the mothers…apparently the God felt it was just…I wonder what yo’ mama jokes do to God..hmmmm

Number 16: 35 250 men killed for burnin incense
Number 16:49 14,700 people question why God is killing so much…so he kills them..so much for ask and it shall to told..
Number 25:1-11 God sends a plague kills 24,000 people- so much for claiming Egyptians were evil, they just enslaved…not killed.
Numbers 31:1-35 God orders 6 kings killed, +males and non-virgin females --save the untouched cootchie, wow that sounds righteous

Deuteronomy 2:33-34 God orders the death of men, women..and get this: children in 60 cities. Damn the kids?

Joshua 8:1-25 12,000 in the city of Ai are ordered killed.
Joshua 10:28-42 all cities to the south are to be anhiliated.
Joshua 11:8-12 now the cities to the north…slaughtered.
Judges 1:4 the canaanites and Perizzites= 10,000 damn that’s genocide isn’t it?
Judges 1:19 The lord was with them all the way but he couldn’t give them the victory because get this its says---they had chariots of Iron

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Per Hindu, Budhist, Muslim, Christian and then some all claiming God is with them...then told God will end the world, while us non-believers feel the world will keep on going...but the regious zealots... well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

Actually I liked how that video was presented especially the part on those missiles. It gave me some good laffs. What I disagree is that the atheist there presented himself to be a sensible and benevolent referee, but you and I know that many atheists are as rowdy and disagreeable as the rest of them; I know because I've debated with many of them even here in the Philippines.

Now back to the issue, to keep it simple, we'll stick to the issue of theism and atheism, or simply belief or unbelief in God or his existence. I asked myself why the concept of God has been present in almost all, if not all, civilizations, even the most primitive ones. It's like a universal instinct built-in on us humans. Why was this universal instinct of belief in God planted on us? there must be a reason, and I thought, it must have come from above. That's one of the reason why I believe in the existence of God. But when people started to interpret God in their own ways and create religions, that's where the problem started. And for me just because various religions have interpreted God in different and often contradictory ways doesn't change the fact, of course to theists like me, that God exists. To put it in another way, just because people of various countries or races have come up with different ideas of God or religions have no bearing on God himself, it's their problem, not God's. I believe God is absolute, while religion definitely is not! as everyone probably knows. We were taught that God is good and devil is evil. That is the basic concept of God I believe in. Now you probably understand why I kept religion away from the concept of God. Most of your arguments above were religious issues, not issues about God per se. So turning a bit on religion. I think religion is just evolving and it has a natural tendency to become more and more benevolent as society develop. The early Christians were just like the Muslims today. In the end, I believe they will all believe God in the same way: God that represents everything good, which is the old, classic way we were taught when we were childrens. The problem, I think, is that we humans are misinterpreting what or who God actually is. I have my own concept but I will not go into that... and get myself into more trouble.

[SlimTrae]

I think my convo-argument with my brother yesterday-carried into this forum My bad.
However, your final post we are in total agreement!

[walrus]

And Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khmer rouge, and so many others killed under there own brand of atheism. Chairman Mao alone killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. An estimated eighty million of his own people. He killed more in his short time in history than Religion did in thousands of years.

[SlimTrae]

Peole kill for all kinds of reasons, but to use a tit-for tat as a reason to NOT discuss why religous people do it doesn't make much sense to me.

And I wouldn't say that those guys-killed more than all religions or books put together----unless you know about the Koran, Mahabarata, Epic of Giglamesh, Septuagint, there are way too many reilgious texts that have led to deaths in the name of their gods, to even try to make a tally. You are talking modern times and historic times have long covered their attrocities.

Once again its usually the religous who talk of end times, talk of their piousness, then when questioned about it; most will use a... well someone else does it.

But since those of Stalin to Chaka Zulu have killed, there was no moral justification for their killings.

Nor do they speak of end times as if they have some inside scoop from the maker above.

The very books that claim no one knows the end times, have readers who claim to know.
The very books that claim to have the blueprint for righteous living seem to have the most unrighteous people heading them.
Killings weren't the topic, but an example of those who claim end times, are the same ones who kill in the name of their god, what exuse do they have for that?

[Andre]

And Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khmer rouge, and so many others killed under there own brand of atheism. Chairman Mao alone killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. An estimated eighty million of his own people. He killed more in his short time in history than Religion did in thousands of years.

This is the take sides thing. Taking sides is a human trait to make your own side seem better or justifiable against another.

All the shit mentioned above in all the threads has been done by humans to other humans.

In whatever name.

Thats the raw truth is; Humans do unspeakable evil to other humans in not their own name but using others names and beliefs to do these acts on behalf of = False justification. (Including their,in country and in Gods name).

None of it proves or disproves an energetic loving God is behind the material goop you call you or them, it doesnt prove or dis prove a Jealous Lord God 'Male only energy' who supposedly protects only his own either.

I dont think any of the extremes or sides of duality if you chose to be within them or think out to the furthermost points, mentally prove anything to anyone else who is also working within them.

[Andre]

For the record Im God loving, not God fearing, and I am anti religious.

[SlimTrae]

For the record Im God loving, not God fearing, and I am anti religious.

I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

But ya' had to have had a good laugh on the youtube clip!

[SlimTrae]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.

well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

I know because I've debated with many of them even here in the Philippines.
.

I didn't get a chance to reply to your home territory- the land of Pac- for the record. I admit frustration on Pac's part that he is with Arum. Man Pac is the shiznick! I feel that he brings his A game to the table-But Arum IMO has stood in the way .
But a man who understand's there is a God usually presents some form of humility-to which Pac exhibits.
I know when he does get inducted to the HOF, I will be there.
He had the power as a skinny runt, so that will always be a no-brainer to me. His power is natural.
Or...a gift from....

[pacfan]

I think my convo-argument with my brother yesterday-carried into this forum My bad.
However, your final post we are in total agreement!

C'mon Mr.SlimT, you are just being kind, lol. I understand how tiring it is to discuss theism and atheism when either side haven't got much evidence to support its claim but stubbornly try to support his claim. So I usually don't engage in discussion with atheists but when I saw your post, I thought you were a reasonably sensible guy so I decided to reply to your post - and take that as a compliment.

And Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khmer rouge, and so many others killed under there own brand of atheism. Chairman Mao alone killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. An estimated eighty million of his own people. He killed more in his short time in history than Religion did in thousands of years.

...and Cambodian despot Pol Pot. What's ironical is that some of their adherents consider them their Gods.

Peole kill for all kinds of reasons, but to use a tit-for tat as a reason to NOT discuss why religous people do it doesn't make much sense to me.

And I wouldn't say that those guys-killed more than all religions or books put together----unless you know about the Koran, Mahabarata, Epic of Giglamesh, Septuagint, there are way too many reilgious texts that have led to deaths in the name of their gods, to even try to make a tally. You are talking modern times and historic times have long covered their attrocities.

Once again its usually the religous who talk of end times, talk of their piousness, then when questioned about it; most will use a... well someone else does it.

But since those of Stalin to Chaka Zulu have killed, there was no moral justification for their killings.

Nor do they speak of end times as if they have some inside scoop from the maker above.

The very books that claim no one knows the end times, have readers who claim to know.
The very books that claim to have the blueprint for righteous living seem to have the most unrighteous people heading them.
Killings weren't the topic, but an example of those who claim end times, are the same ones who kill in the name of their god, what exuse do they have for that?

I agree, and during much earlier times, Christians (and I'm a Christian though more nominal than real) used to do that and they even used to burn infidels on stake! They did that to one young lady and made her a saint later. Unlike God, religion and people are fallible, except perhaps one fella who call himself KirklandL (yo, ol' buddy).

*******

I was born into a Catholic family but has never been particularly that religious. I just couldn't bring myself to believe some biblical passages, like the story of Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit. So I'm pretty relieved to know that the Catholic leaders have suggested that bible doesn't have to be interpreted literally, or it can be interpreted allegorically. That gives us much more latitude to see bible in different light. For example, my interpretation of the Adam and Eve's fruit of knowledge of good and evil is that when somewhere up the evolution when man acquired consciousness, and conscience, the sense of right and wrong, that's where trouble started because now man had to deal with constant sense of guilt, which many psychologists say is the source of man's many suffering, sometimes even physical ones. That's probably the reason why the bible empahsizes repentance - relieve man of his guilt and set him free... Of course that's just my opinion.

[pacfan]

For the record Im God loving, not God fearing, and I am anti religious.

...and of course, there is no such thing as god of wrath. Wrath, hatred is human emotion, a bestial one at that. How can God act like a beast...

[pacfan]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.

well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

I know because I've debated with many of them even here in the Philippines.
.

I didn't get a chance to reply to your home territory- the land of Pac- for the record. I admit frustration on Pac's part that he is with Arum. Man Pac is the shiznick! I feel that he brings his A game to the table-But Arum IMO has stood in the way .
But a man who understand's there is a God usually presents some form of humility-to which Pac exhibits.
I know when he does get inducted to the HOF, I will be there.
He had the power as a skinny runt, so that will always be a no-brainer to me. His power is natural.
Or...a gift from....

What are you talking about, pacman Is God!..

[Andre]

For the record Im God loving, not God fearing, and I am anti religious.

I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

But ya' had to have had a good laugh on the youtube clip!

Yeah its great .

I recon the trouble occurred when the alchemists,the astronomers and high priest in the ancient worlds all realized that everything is connected by an un seen energy that literally moves through everything a vibration ~ sound etc manifesting material out of love and light energies.

They had to put it in human terms to educate the dumb humans in terms they may understand at the time. Like father,mother,son etc.Its was the only way,you could not talk sacred geometry to them.

I think you will find the real ancients knew more than the latter period rulers were ever letting on, when mankind had a dumbing down of the masses by the later rulers everything went excuse the term (to the devil).

The burning of the Library of Alexandria was a massive turning point there. Rome also liked to destroy all prior knowledge before it and latter even took over a loving forgiving religion and started persecuting those within it; then made all their own rules up after taking it over by force. Then through fear and judgment went about destroying the unconditional forgiveness and love message that was meant to be passed through to all mankind.

They Rome ,removed all Christian scripture that states reincarnation. They want you to think you have only one shot at this (so they have control over their masses and cash and lands on your departure) but what they tell you, is not true.

[walrus]

I was not making a tit for tat statement or trying to say everyone does it, simply replying to the thread in my own way. I can only really speak on Catholicism, I have read much on other religions but I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to point out much of their historical wrongs. I am not blind to the fact that faith I practice had lost its way at points throughout history however, that seems to be what people who are not Catholic focus on. The Catholic Church is the largest provider of humanitarian services in the world. It has brought us many great people, St. Augustin of Hippo, Theresa of Calcutta and many others who sacrificed their lives to try to improve things as best they could. Over its 2000 year history I believe the Church has brought us more beauty than fault. Those who committed crimes were not practicing the faith and had strayed from its teachings. I was just saying many people think religion has been the greatest force of harm in history, I don't believe that to be true.

Being the official Saddo Spiritual leader I have great respect for all religions and don't look at any of them as bad, even Bahai, I also maintain respect for the atheists as they themselves have their own religion. Religion, simply put, is any system of belief. Thank you, peace and all good things.

[Andre]

I was not making a tit for tat statement or trying to say everyone does it, simply replying to the thread in my own way. I can only really speak on Catholicism, I have read much on other religions but I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to point out much of their historical wrongs. I am not blind to the fact that faith I practice had lost its way at points throughout history however, that seems to be what people who are not Catholic focus on. The Catholic Church is the largest provider of humanitarian services in the world. It has brought us many great people, St. Augustin of Hippo, Theresa of Calcutta and many others who sacrificed their lives to try to improve things as best they could. Over its 2000 year history I believe the Church has brought us more beauty than fault. Those who committed crimes were not practicing the faith and had strayed from its teachings. I was just saying many people think religion has been the greatest force of harm in history, I don't believe that to be true.



Being the official Saddo Spiritual leader I have great respect for all religions and don't look at any of them as bad, even Bahai, I also maintain respect for the atheists as they themselves have their own religion. Religion, simply put, is any system of belief. Thank you, peace and all good things.

Yep every Church and mosque etc are exactly the same as the rest of the world, good and evil people exist within them. The governments and the hierarchy of religions have alot more in common with each other than us peasants though.