Comparing Floyd and Bhop's opposition

[Beanflicker]

adaptability, style(s)

Please please please explain to me how Hopkins beats Floyd in adaptability?

[Beanflicker]

Hopkins pulled off a lot more big upsets than Floyd, but to be fair Floyd has hardly ever (if ever) been an underdog.

Someone explain to me also how going up in weight and dominating Tarver is any better than going up in weight and beating Canelo Alvarez?

Tarver was a solid fighter and the #1 at LHW at the time for sure, but he had 3 losses on his record and had been beaten by Glen Johnson just a few fights previous.

Canelo was the #1 at his division too. Young, undefeated and has gone on to regain the #1 spot in his division now that Floyd has dropped back to WW.

Someone explain to me how the Tarver win is a much higher quality win, because I don't get it.

[Master]

Hopkins pulled off a lot more big upsets than Floyd, but to be fair Floyd has hardly ever (if ever) been an underdog.

Someone explain to me also how going up in weight and dominating Tarver is any better than going up in weight and beating Canelo Alvarez?

Tarver was a solid fighter and the #1 at LHW at the time for sure, but he had 3 losses on his record and had been beaten by Glen Johnson just a few fights previous.

Canelo was the #1 at his division too. Young, undefeated and has gone on to regain the #1 spot in his division now that Floyd has dropped back to WW.

Someone explain to me how the Tarver win is a much higher quality win, because I don't get it.

Beating Canelo is a great victory, very under rated.

[Silkeyjoe]

I dont think the Alavrez win was underrated. Alvarez is a good fighter. Good defense, decent power, reasonably fast, decent movement but I have never rated him as great at any of this. Trout is a good fighter and gave him so much trouble that there was no doubt in my mind Floyd would school him. I also thought Lara would school him and while it wasnt a schooling I still think he should have won. Thats too many off days for me to consider Alvarez great.

As for Bhop I agree what he did for 10 years at MW was special but apart from Trinidad the competition really wasnt that good. De la Hoya really shouldnt have been at the weight and had just got a gift of a win over Sturm in the previous fight. For me he lost his 4 biggest fights. Jones Jr, Calzaghe, Taylor and Dawson and had he won one or 2 of these id have him as an all time great. Dont get me wrong he has had a great career just not of an ATG in my mind.

[Spicoli]

Hopkins pulled off a lot more big upsets than Floyd, but to be fair Floyd has hardly ever (if ever) been an underdog.

Someone explain to me also how going up in weight and dominating Tarver is any better than going up in weight and beating Canelo Alvarez?

Tarver was a solid fighter and the #1 at LHW at the time for sure, but he had 3 losses on his record and had been beaten by Glen Johnson just a few fights previous.

Canelo was the #1 at his division too. Young, undefeated and has gone on to regain the #1 spot in his division now that Floyd has dropped back to WW.

Someone explain to me how the Tarver win is a much higher quality win, because I don't get it.

In fairness Tarver could say he had knocked out and beaten a great. As well the weight jump was a little bit more significant as opposed to some 1,2 lb catch weight carnival. Alvarez was a quality fight and match and scalp for Mayweather but he hadn't been in the deep end on a large scale.

[Beanflicker]

It's the same story every time, people make these statements, and when you ask them to justify their opinion they get all defensive and start screaming about "oohhh I guess no one can disagree with anyone here" and "ooohh I guess I nobody can criticize Floyd."

What ever happened to actually having logic to back an opinion or idea? Sheesh

[Spicoli]

adaptability, style(s)

Please please please explain to me how Hopkins beats Floyd in adaptability?

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

[Beanflicker]

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1280370]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd? Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose. He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe, Dawson, or Kovalev. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate.

[El Kabong]

If Floyd was to fight GGG that would be on par with BHop fighting Kovalev....it was a very dangerous fight for anyone much less a 50 year old

[ruthless rocco]

Remember how Bernard was completely dominated--every second of every round for 12 rounds? That was awesome!

[Beanflicker]

If Floyd was to fight GGG that would be on par with BHop fighting Kovalev....it was a very dangerous fight for anyone much less a 50 year old

I don't know how that works because Bhop and Kovalev were in the same weight division and of similar size and weight. GGG is two divisions up from Floyd, and even at WW Floyd is routinely outweighed by more of a gap than Kovalev outweighed Bhop, which I believe was 7 lbs.

[SlimTrae]

Hop IMO does't have a resume that questions who he didn't fight.

I think we all can find a fighter or two that PBF didn't fight: For me its Paul Williams who wanted him @ WW, Margarito as well... and a guy named: pacman.

That's why PBF has adjusted to all his challenges: because he chose which ones and when, Hop didn't.

[Beanflicker]

That's why PBF has adjusted to all his challenges: because he chose which ones and when, Hop didn't.

Yeah, is that so?

I remember Hopkins turning down Kovalev as a replacement opponent for him a short time ago, saying Kovalev didn't deserve to fight him.

I remember Hopkins turning rejecting a 2.5 million dollar offer from Frank Warren to fight Joe Calzaghe in 2004.

I remember Hopkins being accused of ducking Chad Dawson when Dawson was the next big thing coming.

I remember Hopkins turning down a 60/40 split to fight then-p4p king Roy Jones.

But you're right... it's all about the legacy for Hopkins, he doesn't care one bit about money

[Spicoli]

[QUOTE=Beanflicker;1280388]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd? Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose. He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe, Dawson, or Kovalev. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate.

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

[SlimTrae]

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1280767]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck Agreed. .

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd?
No,I don't think we can. You're right, IMO it is because PBF is way more talented than Hop. Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose.
Agreed; sooner or later he took on ALL challenges, but didn't win all those he took on. , He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win.
I disagree, he made them well, just too late- by the 6th round, it was too late. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt.
Same thing he waited too late, but styles makes fights, so Hop has little exuses, me too. Taylor won II clean. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe
I don't think it was adaptating, it was workrate. Dawson- again a certain style that Hopkins skill level can't surpass when talent, workrate & a fighter who likes to counter as well, or Kovalev.
Krusher is the only loss Hop had, that I think a younger Hop could've defeated- the one that fought Echols, that Hop had more energy to burn..we are talking 49 years old. Like Kovalev said, it wasn't and easy fight. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.
True, IMO every word, PBF isn't just talented like Ali, SRL & RJJ, he is also a skilled craftsman, sharpshooter, agile & tireless.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate
Isn't it a shame we will never have seen it vs. PW, AM, Khan or Pac?. .

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

I agree. I also think Hop didn't realize that a young Taylor couldn't work 12 rounds- so this actually means Hop misdjudged Taylor & waited way to late to turn it on- By 10-12 round he schooled Taylor, but too little to late

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed.
DLH was the golden egg. Previous to DLH PBF never sold out, never had a PPV he led. I fault neither Hop nor PBF for taking on DLH. DLH was the cash cow. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back.
Agreed, but only diehard fans can appreciate those names. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less.
Echols II you mean? yeah thing of beauty to see him fight almost two rounds with one arm, then outta nowhere --did a move like a karate man, popping his shoulder back in place..I thought it was B.S theatrics- but nevertheless he fought one armed beautifully, then ended the fight like a marksman. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. (True) At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

I wonder if Tarver gaining weight to play Mason Dixon drained him. When I watch the underated fights of Tarver vs Johnson those were punchfests. where did all that energy go?