Comparing Floyd and Bhop's opposition

[Beanflicker]

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1280370]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd? Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose. He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe, Dawson, or Kovalev. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate.

[El Kabong]

If Floyd was to fight GGG that would be on par with BHop fighting Kovalev....it was a very dangerous fight for anyone much less a 50 year old

[ruthless rocco]

Remember how Bernard was completely dominated--every second of every round for 12 rounds? That was awesome!

[Beanflicker]

If Floyd was to fight GGG that would be on par with BHop fighting Kovalev....it was a very dangerous fight for anyone much less a 50 year old

I don't know how that works because Bhop and Kovalev were in the same weight division and of similar size and weight. GGG is two divisions up from Floyd, and even at WW Floyd is routinely outweighed by more of a gap than Kovalev outweighed Bhop, which I believe was 7 lbs.

[SlimTrae]

Hop IMO does't have a resume that questions who he didn't fight.

I think we all can find a fighter or two that PBF didn't fight: For me its Paul Williams who wanted him @ WW, Margarito as well... and a guy named: pacman.

That's why PBF has adjusted to all his challenges: because he chose which ones and when, Hop didn't.

[Beanflicker]

That's why PBF has adjusted to all his challenges: because he chose which ones and when, Hop didn't.

Yeah, is that so?

I remember Hopkins turning down Kovalev as a replacement opponent for him a short time ago, saying Kovalev didn't deserve to fight him.

I remember Hopkins turning rejecting a 2.5 million dollar offer from Frank Warren to fight Joe Calzaghe in 2004.

I remember Hopkins being accused of ducking Chad Dawson when Dawson was the next big thing coming.

I remember Hopkins turning down a 60/40 split to fight then-p4p king Roy Jones.

But you're right... it's all about the legacy for Hopkins, he doesn't care one bit about money

[IamInuit]

So some would like to split hairs eh, well ok.


Floyd challenged Hernendez for the 130 title in 98. Hernendez was battle worn, 33 years old and retired right after the fight.

He defended against Manfredy. Just what happened in that fight and why was it stopped?

Next was Rios. A 30 year old pseudo gate keeper.

Then Jukko, Genera, Vargas and Augustus. Opponents.

Then came Chico. Does anyone actually believe that Chico's head was even there? The guy was about a week away from going to the big house. I'm surprised they went through with the fight.

Next came Carlos Hernandez who was shell shocked and dominated 4 years earlier by the same Genaro Hernandez that Floyd beat and he was able to drop Floyd.

Chavez was next up to the plate and he did pretty well until he gassed.

Then came Castillo at 135 and we all saw that first fight. Big points for Floyd going after that rematch and winning it. That was a great win over a very good fighter but Cortez made his presence known and would go on to do so anytime Floyd was faced with a swarmer/crowding type fighter.

Sosa and Ndou were next at 135. Sosa was an unknown Dominican who fought one person with a pulse prior to Floyd in Spadafora and was soundly beaten. Ndou may have been 30 and 1 when he fought Floyd but go take a look at his opposition.

Then came a 140 eliminator with Corley who did give him some issues with his speed and southpaw approach. He rocked Floyd pretty good at one point. Demarcus was no world beater albeit managing to out point Bailey and barely lose his title to Judah.

Floyd then fought another 140 eliminator against Brussels. I guess he was a contender. So this brings us to 2005.

Arturro Gatti for the 140 WBC title followed keeping that close to 10 year relationship alive. Gatti had went to the well far to many times. To come clean though I actually thought he had a shot based on Floyds shady competition up to that point. Needless to say it was another mismatch.

Mitchell was the next victim and then he jumped up to fight Judah for a Welter paper title that for some reason Judah did not lose when he lost to Carlos Baldomir. Judah was the beginning of name plate recognition.
Nobody in boxing thought he'd make it to 12 but he did and actually did better then expected until he started watching himself.

Floyd doesn’t bother with the Ibf tin but then fights Baldo for the Wbc strap he took off Judah. You'd almost think all of this shit was preplanned.

Oscar was next and to Floyds credit he jumped right up to 154 and the shot at super stardom but was Oscar in his prime in 2007? Name plate number 2. And to Oscars credit he stuck with him until he stopped using his jab.

Hatton was next and I'll just say that Cortez absolutely ruined that fight and did what he was indirectly hired to do. It was pathetic and anyone who stands by the “it wouldn’t have made a difference” is daft with little or no understanding of the sport they pretend to be keen on. Not even Name plate rec on this horror show.

Then it was Marquez for some reason. Pretty much a career featherweight who was having difficulty so wandered up to 130/135. This is the fight after close to a 2 year retirement. And he could not even make the weight he agreed to while Marquez was sporting a suit of new flab. Lets just call this for what it was, A joke.

Its now 2009 and his next mark is Shane but it was a dollar short and a decade late. Name plate number 3.

A year later in 2011 its Victor Ortiz and just look at who the ref was and the job he did. Yup that's right Mr. Cortez with yet another academy performance.

FF close to another year and we see Floyd against Cotto in 2012 prior to going to jail. Ugly fight that Floyd did not look all the great in understandably but the boxing world had already thrown Cotto under the bus and again his prime was killed in cement gate. Name plate number 4

Another year passes an its 2013 and he fights Guerrero. Now Robert earned it I guess by jumping up 2 divisions and beating Aydin and Berto but was the result anything but expected

To his credit just a few months later he agrees to Alvarez but of course there is a catch which then turns into another pass for Floyd in the minds of many. Floyd does a nice job but Alvarez held his own.

And lastly Maidana. A fighter all but dismissed by everyone as a no hoper and we witnessed what we did. Sadly he had no Cortez.

Hardly a ledger that justifies the trumpets.

So endeth my hair splitting.

[Beanflicker]

So some would like to split hairs eh, well ok.


Floyd challenged Hernendez for the 130 title in 98. Hernendez was battle worn, 33 years old and retired right after the fight.

He defended against Manfredy. Just what happened in that fight and why was it stopped?

Next was Rios. A 30 year old pseudo gate keeper.

Then Jukko, Genera, Vargas and Augustus. Opponents.

Then came Chico. Does anyone actually believe that Chico's head was even there? The guy was about a week away from going to the big house. I'm surprised they went through with the fight.

Next came Carlos Hernandez who was shell shocked and dominated 4 years earlier by the same Genaro Hernandez that Floyd beat and he was able to drop Floyd.

Chavez was next up to the plate and he did pretty well until he gassed.

Then came Castillo at 135 and we all saw that first fight. Big points for Floyd going after that rematch and winning it. That was a great win over a very good fighter but Cortez made his presence known and would go on to do so anytime Floyd was faced with a swarmer/crowding type fighter.

Sosa and Ndou were next at 135. Sosa was an unknown Dominican who fought one person with a pulse prior to Floyd in Spadafora and was soundly beaten. Ndou may have been 30 and 1 when he fought Floyd but go take a look at his opposition.

Then came a 140 eliminator with Corley who did give him some issues with his speed and southpaw approach. He rocked Floyd pretty good at one point. Demarcus was no world beater albeit managing to out point Bailey and barely lose his title to Judah.

Floyd then fought another 140 eliminator against Brussels. I guess he was a contender. So this brings us to 2005.

Arturro Gatti for the 140 WBC title followed keeping that close to 10 year relationship alive. Gatti had went to the well far to many times. To come clean though I actually thought he had a shot based on Floyds shady competition up to that point. Needless to say it was another mismatch.

Mitchell was the next victim and then he jumped up to fight Judah for a Welter paper title that for some reason Judah did not lose when he lost to Carlos Baldomir. Judah was the beginning of name plate recognition.
Nobody in boxing thought he'd make it to 12 but he did and actually did better then expected until he started watching himself.

Floyd doesn’t bother with the Ibf tin but then fights Baldo for the Wbc strap he took off Judah. You'd almost think all of this shit was preplanned.

Oscar was next and to Floyds credit he jumped right up to 154 and the shot at super stardom but was Oscar in his prime in 2007? Name plate number 2. And to Oscars credit he stuck with him until he stopped using his jab.

Hatton was next and I'll just say that Cortez absolutely ruined that fight and did what he was indirectly hired to do. It was pathetic and anyone who stands by the “it wouldn’t have made a difference” is daft with little or no understanding of the sport they pretend to be keen on. Not even Name plate rec on this horror show.

Then it was Marquez for some reason. Pretty much a career featherweight who was having difficulty so wandered up to 130/135. This is the fight after close to a 2 year retirement. And he could not even make the weight he agreed to while Marquez was sporting a suit of new flab. Lets just call this for what it was, A joke.

Its now 2009 and his next mark is Shane but it was a dollar short and a decade late. Name plate number 3.

A year later in 2011 its Victor Ortiz and just look at who the ref was and the job he did. Yup that's right Mr. Cortez with yet another academy performance.

FF close to another year and we see Floyd against Cotto in 2012 prior to going to jail. Ugly fight that Floyd did not look all the great in understandably but the boxing world had already thrown Cotto under the bus and again his prime was killed in cement gate. Name plate number 4

Another year passes an its 2013 and he fights Guerrero. Now Robert earned it I guess by jumping up 2 divisions and beating Aydin and Berto but was the result anything but expected

To his credit just a few months later he agrees to Alvarez but of course there is a catch which then turns into another pass for Floyd in the minds of many. Floyd does a nice job but Alvarez held his own.

And lastly Maidana. A fighter all but dismissed by everyone as a no hoper and we witnessed what we did. Sadly he had no Cortez.

Hardly a ledger that justifies the trumpets.

So endeth my hair splitting.

Exactly. The guy who's fought nothing but championship and top ranked opposition for the last 16 years never had a real fight in his life, it was all rigged to give Floyd an easy career, he's a sissy who never fought anyone and only cares about money, every other champion who's ever lived didn't care about money whatsoever and it was just the love of boxing... yeeesh.

It's a good thing this is an internet forum, because there's no way you'd be able to tell me you're not a Floyd hater and keep a straight face. Come on dude.

[Spicoli]

[QUOTE=Beanflicker;1280388]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd? Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose. He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe, Dawson, or Kovalev. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate.

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

[SlimTrae]

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1280767]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck Agreed. .

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd?
No,I don't think we can. You're right, IMO it is because PBF is way more talented than Hop. Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose.
Agreed; sooner or later he took on ALL challenges, but didn't win all those he took on. , He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win.
I disagree, he made them well, just too late- by the 6th round, it was too late. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt.
Same thing he waited too late, but styles makes fights, so Hop has little exuses, me too. Taylor won II clean. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe
I don't think it was adaptating, it was workrate. Dawson- again a certain style that Hopkins skill level can't surpass when talent, workrate & a fighter who likes to counter as well, or Kovalev.
Krusher is the only loss Hop had, that I think a younger Hop could've defeated- the one that fought Echols, that Hop had more energy to burn..we are talking 49 years old. Like Kovalev said, it wasn't and easy fight. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.
True, IMO every word, PBF isn't just talented like Ali, SRL & RJJ, he is also a skilled craftsman, sharpshooter, agile & tireless.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate
Isn't it a shame we will never have seen it vs. PW, AM, Khan or Pac?. .

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

I agree. I also think Hop didn't realize that a young Taylor couldn't work 12 rounds- so this actually means Hop misdjudged Taylor & waited way to late to turn it on- By 10-12 round he schooled Taylor, but too little to late

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed.
DLH was the golden egg. Previous to DLH PBF never sold out, never had a PPV he led. I fault neither Hop nor PBF for taking on DLH. DLH was the cash cow. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back.
Agreed, but only diehard fans can appreciate those names. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less.
Echols II you mean? yeah thing of beauty to see him fight almost two rounds with one arm, then outta nowhere --did a move like a karate man, popping his shoulder back in place..I thought it was B.S theatrics- but nevertheless he fought one armed beautifully, then ended the fight like a marksman. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. (True) At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

I wonder if Tarver gaining weight to play Mason Dixon drained him. When I watch the underated fights of Tarver vs Johnson those were punchfests. where did all that energy go?

[Spicoli]

[QUOTE=SlimTrae;1280786]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck Agreed. .

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd?
No,I don't think we can. You're right, IMO it is because PBF is way more talented than Hop. Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose.
Agreed; sooner or later he took on ALL challenges, but didn't win all those he took on. , He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win.
I disagree, he made them well, just too late- by the 6th round, it was too late. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt.
Same thing he waited too late, but styles makes fights, so Hop has little exuses, me too. Taylor won II clean. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe
I don't think it was adaptating, it was workrate. Dawson- again a certain style that Hopkins skill level can't surpass when talent, workrate & a fighter who likes to counter as well, or Kovalev.
Krusher is the only loss Hop had, that I think a younger Hop could've defeated- the one that fought Echols, that Hop had more energy to burn..we are talking 49 years old. Like Kovalev said, it wasn't and easy fight. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.
True, IMO every word, PBF isn't just talented like Ali, SRL & RJJ, he is also a skilled craftsman, sharpshooter, agile & tireless.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate
Isn't it a shame we will never have seen it vs. PW, AM, Khan or Pac?. .

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

I agree. I also think Hop didn't realize that a young Taylor couldn't work 12 rounds- so this actually means Hop misdjudged Taylor & waited way to late to turn it on- By 10-12 round he schooled Taylor, but too little to late

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed.
DLH was the golden egg. Previous to DLH PBF never sold out, never had a PPV he led. I fault neither Hop nor PBF for taking on DLH. DLH was the cash cow. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back.
Agreed, but only diehard fans can appreciate those names. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less.
Echols II you mean? yeah thing of beauty to see him fight almost two rounds with one arm, then outta nowhere --did a move like a karate man, popping his shoulder back in place..I thought it was B.S theatrics- but nevertheless he fought one armed beautifully, then ended the fight like a marksman. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. (True) At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

I wonder if Tarver gaining weight to play Mason Dixon drained him. When I watch the underated fights of Tarver vs Johnson those were punchfests. where did all that energy go?

Yeh, that's a helluva lot of weight and Hopkins knew just that. But a man works on what's in front of him and on the other end Hopkins was coming up. That's why they basically jumped him early and set pace. Ironically its always brought up with Tarver-Jones jr too and both came back in the same amount of time 7,8 months. Tarver was 'bigger' but no where near stronger vs Hopkins. I honestly don't think it would have dictated a different result(s)..styles, minds sets etc . Tarver had that knack for waiting and watching, Johnson was a buzzsaw and Tarver was doing a Hopkins style late in second fight. Johnson brought guys into the trenches god love em.