Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
If you're going to claim a fighter from a certain era was more hype than substance then you at least need to back that up by having some knowledge about his opponents. If you claim the fighter wasn't much cop then what does that say about his opponents? And his opponents opponents? And the "great" fighters from that era that have shared common opponents.

You can be the greatest of your era without beating a "great" fighter. Wlad hasn't beat a single man that will go close to being regarded as "great" (HOF bound) but he himself will be regarded as an all-time great. The best heavyweight of his era (one of numerous examples).

Kirkland Laing was beat a dozen times (KO'd eight), never won a "world" title. Who was his best win? Roberto Duran - a man that is regarded by every credible boxing sage on the planet as one the greatest that ever lived. Does that make Laing an all-time great? No.

(although I personally thought he was the bollocks back in the day )
I agree again Fenster, you can't just say 'he beat Duran' and leave it at that... You have to look at the circumstances - where was Duran at that point in his career etc.

The same goes for any fighter - Alfonso Gomez even beat Gatti, but so what?
The same can be said of lineal belts, you have guys like Carlos Baldomor hold them.

I'd rather not discuss the ins and outs of Kevin Kelley's career if that's ok.

Your point about Wlad is moot, Wlad has fought no greats, yes... But he's fought everybody of this era... That's why he's indisputably the best of this era. It's just not a great era.

Hamed fought in a better era for his weight than Wlad, but he only fought and lost to one of the top echelon of his era.

He still goes down as one of the best of his era, just not the best.
And the entertainment and hype that he brought cement him in the HOF fairly, let alone his title success. I think that's fair enough, he doesn't have to be utter shite in my eyes just because I don't believe he was the greatest of his era!

The fact that some people still think so long after the hype should have died is testement to the buzz he created I guess.