Max powerism 101:

[Max Power]

Again Max shows pictures of the bodies of today's heavyweights so what they are fitter, better, stronger, firmer, gayer?

Alright, let's dispense with the pictures...

Here is "MAX POWERISM 101" for real.

1/ The TOTAL PACKAGE of HW boxers today in general is FAR GREATER than the total package of boxers past.

2/ At HW there are boxers with better defense, better offence, worse this quality, worse that quality, fat and athletic, tall and short, muscular or skinny and it's always been that way at HW. It does not make SENSE to compare a defensive fighter from yesteryear, to a crude slugger today and vice verse.

3/ When we compare the DEFENSIVE boxers today to yesterday, todays are much better.

4/ When we compare the OFFENSIVE boxers today to yesterday, todays are much better.

5/ Technical boxers today are MUCH better.

6/ Today's ATHLETIC boxers (excluding chubbers) are MUCH more athletic than yesterdays athletic boxers (again, excluding chubbers)

7/ With respect to boxers in the HW division today roughly the same size as past HW's, the newer ones are much FASTER than previous! It doesn't make sense to compare the speed of 6'3" 210lb Clay to 6'9" 260lb Fury for example. It DOES make sense to compare it to David Haye!

Basically individual attributes and skills should be compared cross eras to their natural counterparts, not to opposite extremes.

The problem can be solved even more simply by comparing with the Cruiser division where the weight is under 215lbs (the weight of cruisers today on fight night).

And see law #1 for any other argument LOL

[ruthless rocco]

Again Max shows pictures of the bodies of today's heavyweights so what they are fitter, better, stronger, firmer, gayer?

Alright, let's dispense with the pictures...

Here is "MAX POWERISM 101" for real.

1/ The TOTAL PACKAGE of HW boxers today in general is FAR GREATER than the total package of boxers past.

2/ At HW there are boxers with better defense, better offence, worse this quality, worse that quality, fat and athletic, tall and short, muscular or skinny and it's always been that way at HW. It does not make SENSE to compare a defensive fighter from yesteryear, to a crude slugger today and vice verse.

3/ When we compare the DEFENSIVE boxers today to yesterday, todays are much better.

4/ When we compare the OFFENSIVE boxers today to yesterday, todays are much better.

5/ Technical boxers today are MUCH better.

6/ Today's ATHLETIC boxers (excluding chubbers) are MUCH more athletic than yesterdays athletic boxers (again, excluding chubbers)

7/ With respect to boxers in the HW division today roughly the same size as past HW's, the newer ones are much FASTER than previous! It doesn't make sense to compare the speed of 6'3" 210lb Clay to 6'9" 260lb Fury for example. It DOES make sense to compare it to David Haye!

Basically individual attributes and skills should be compared cross eras to their natural counterparts, not to opposite extremes.

The problem can be solved even more simply by comparing with the Cruiser division where the weight is under 215lbs (the weight of cruisers today on fight night).

And see law #1 for any other argument LOL

Blah Blah blaHHH!

I'm guessing that your baby's momma stopped banging you right after she got pregnant and hasn't felt like banging since the poor child was born. You haven't had sex in like a year and a half and looking at sweaty, oiled and hulked up fighters is your only sexual release.

See a doctor or therapist or go to prostitutes man! You need help.

[Master]

There is Wlad and far far far below him are a bunch of inept, unskilled, heartless bums who should play another sport.

The end.

[Max Power]

There is Wlad and far far far below him are a bunch of inept, unskilled, heartless bums who should play another sport.

The end.

Let me tell you right now, any boxer who steps into the ring with Wladimir Klitschko has far more heart that anybody who stepped into the ring with the featherfisted punching bags that you support!

This is a guy who has barely lost more than a handful of rounds of boxing EVER and with high frequency canvas KO's his opponents. Any opponent getting in the ring with Klitschko does so with the knowledge that they will probably end up unconscious, that they will barely lay a glove on him, and they will be eating leather for as long as the fight lasts. And all this, no matter how hard they try, no matter what they do, how hard they trained or what tactics they worked on.

Everytime Wladimir enters the ring,

His opponent is a proven boxer
Or someone being praised as "the next big thing"
Maybe an unbeaten southpaw
Or someone who has never lost a fight before
Or a former world champion, or even a beater of a world champion
Or a current world champion
Or one of the best KO'ers with a KO'ratio of 75%, 85% or even 90%
Or one of the fastest boxers of all time

Are you seriously trying to tell me that of the 63 win fights of WK now, that none of them had any heart or any boxing cred?

[ruthless rocco]

Can't we just get to the thick of things...? Which is that Max Power's whole argument is that the new fighters have better science and diet a drugs over the older fighters. That, combined with the technique gained by the advancements made by the older fighters, leads us to the conclusion that ALL NEW fighters are better than ALL OLD fighters.
There's no need for further discussion on his part. That's his entire argument.

Newer is better. Period!

And yet he continues to make post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post about the same fucking point.

It's senseless and it's stupid and it's wrong!!!!!

[Max Power]

Can't we just get to the thick of things...? Which is that Max Power's whole argument is that the new fighters have better science and diet a drugs over the older fighters. That, combined with the technique gained by the advancements made by the older fighters, leads us to the conclusion that ALL NEW fighters are better than ALL OLD fighters.
There's no need for further discussion in his part. That's his entire argument.

Newer is better. Period!

And yet he continues to make post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post post after post after post after post about the same fucking point.

It's senseless and it's stupid and it's wrong!!!!!

Sounds like you've been chasing the dragon for quite some time my friend. Put the glassware down and try the bottle instead, you will sleep better

[Master]

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been. The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long. Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance. He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5. He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.

Better science my ass.

[Max Power]

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been. The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long. Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance. He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5. He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.

Better science my ass.

He CAN and DID knock out fighters much quicker and more aggressively in the past, look at the record, watch the fights!

Trouble is his opposition got much better and much more dangerous. He probably still could waste most of them anyway but why would he want to take more damage in the process when he can do it without it? And why would he increase his chance of losing to show off? He completely dissects his opponents, then knocks them out. Safely! That is smart science of boxing whether you have a strong chin or a weak one!

Let's say he has the weakest chin of all time (which is wrong but let's have it your way for now Master), basically your admitting that he is so unbelievably good that he can be successful in the hardest hitting and heaviest era ever on record for 10 years straight with a glass jaw.

LOL Which is it?

Well over in Europe, they consider the 90's a bum era. I have heard many Slavic posters make this claim with decent arguments too! Nationally biased? NO DOUBT!

The truth is, the 90's, 00's and now the 10's were VERY COMPARABLE!

Average boxer weight in Holyfield/Lewis era 220lbs. Average boxer weight in Klitschko (combined) era, 225lbs. Similar records. Look similarly good on film. Sorry but I personally see no clear advantage of either era!

[Master]

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been. The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long. Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance. He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5. He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.

Better science my ass.

He CAN and DID knock out fighters much quicker and more aggressively in the past, look at the record, watch the fights!

Trouble is his opposition got much better and much more dangerous. He probably still could waste most of them anyway but why would he want to take more damage in the process when he can do it without it? And why would he increase his chance of losing to show off? He completely dissects his opponents, then knocks them out. Safely! That is smart science of boxing whether you have a strong chin or a weak one!

Let's say he has the weakest chin of all time (which is wrong but let's have it your way for now Master), basically your admitting that he is so unbelievably good that he can be successful in the hardest hitting and heaviest era ever on record for 10 years straight with a glass jaw.

LOL Which is it?

Well over in Europe, they consider the 90's a bum era. I have heard many Slavic posters make this claim with decent arguments too! Nationally biased? NO DOUBT!

The truth is, the 90's, 00's and now the 10's were VERY COMPARABLE!

Average boxer weight in Holyfield/Lewis era 220lbs. Average boxer weight in Klitschko (combined) era, 225lbs. Similar records. Look similarly good on film. Sorry but I personally see no clear advantage of either era!

Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield from 1990’s v your top 4 2010?

[Max Power]

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been. The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long. Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance. He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5. He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.

Better science my ass.

He CAN and DID knock out fighters much quicker and more aggressively in the past, look at the record, watch the fights!

Trouble is his opposition got much better and much more dangerous. He probably still could waste most of them anyway but why would he want to take more damage in the process when he can do it without it? And why would he increase his chance of losing to show off? He completely dissects his opponents, then knocks them out. Safely! That is smart science of boxing whether you have a strong chin or a weak one!

Let's say he has the weakest chin of all time (which is wrong but let's have it your way for now Master), basically your admitting that he is so unbelievably good that he can be successful in the hardest hitting and heaviest era ever on record for 10 years straight with a glass jaw.

LOL Which is it?

Well over in Europe, they consider the 90's a bum era. I have heard many Slavic posters make this claim with decent arguments too! Nationally biased? NO DOUBT!

The truth is, the 90's, 00's and now the 10's were VERY COMPARABLE!

Average boxer weight in Holyfield/Lewis era 220lbs. Average boxer weight in Klitschko (combined) era, 225lbs. Similar records. Look similarly good on film. Sorry but I personally see no clear advantage of either era!

Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield from 1990’s v your top 4 2010?

Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
David Haye
Bermane Stiverne.

You picked 4 boxers from a span of 10 years, I picked 4 from a span of 4 years. And I see no clear dominance I'm sorry!

[powerpuncher]

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been. The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long. Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance. He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5. He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.

Better science my ass.

He CAN and DID knock out fighters much quicker and more aggressively in the past, look at the record, watch the fights!

Trouble is his opposition got much better and much more dangerous. He probably still could waste most of them anyway but why would he want to take more damage in the process when he can do it without it? And why would he increase his chance of losing to show off? He completely dissects his opponents, then knocks them out. Safely! That is smart science of boxing whether you have a strong chin or a weak one!

Let's say he has the weakest chin of all time (which is wrong but let's have it your way for now Master), basically your admitting that he is so unbelievably good that he can be successful in the hardest hitting and heaviest era ever on record for 10 years straight with a glass jaw.

LOL Which is it?

Well over in Europe, they consider the 90's a bum era. I have heard many Slavic posters make this claim with decent arguments too! Nationally biased? NO DOUBT!

The truth is, the 90's, 00's and now the 10's were VERY COMPARABLE!

Average boxer weight in Holyfield/Lewis era 220lbs. Average boxer weight in Klitschko (combined) era, 225lbs. Similar records. Look similarly good on film. Sorry but I personally see no clear advantage of either era!

Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield from 1990’s v your top 4 2010?

Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
David Haye
Bermane Stiverne.

You picked 4 boxers from a span of 10 years, I picked 4 from a span of 4 years. And I see no clear dominance I'm sorry!

stiverne? i thought that even you wouldnt stoop that low...i shouldnt have assumed that though.

[TitoFan]

Excellent post, and I'll break down the reasons why:

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been.
Damn right. Let's quit pussy-footing around this point and call a spade a spade. There's been slow periods in HW, but nothing like the absolute trash there is today.


The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long.
Ditto. See above.


Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model
Someone who's just hating doesn't call the fighter "a great heavyweight champion". No one is trying to totally discredit Wlad. But again... let's be real here. I've said the same thing for years.


but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance.
PRE-FRIGGING-CISELY!!! Most telling fact of all. Wlad takes zero risks. ZERO. And before the certain "blah-blah-blah" about how boxers aren't supposed to take risks....... WRONG. If it was all about not taking any risks, they wouldn't step into the ring at all, would they.


He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5.


He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.
Right once again. Which makes for boring, foul-filled fights.


Better science my ass.
Ok, now he's hating.

[Max Power]

Excellent post, and I'll break down the reasons why:

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been.
Damn right. Let's quit pussy-footing around this point and call a spade a spade. There's been slow periods in HW, but nothing like the absolute trash there is today.


The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long.
Ditto. See above.


Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model
Someone who's just hating doesn't call the fighter "a great heavyweight champion". No one is trying to totally discredit Wlad. But again... let's be real here. I've said the same thing for years.


but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance.
PRE-FRIGGING-CISELY!!! Most telling fact of all. Wlad takes zero risks. ZERO. And before the certain "blah-blah-blah" about how boxers aren't supposed to take risks....... WRONG. If it was all about not taking any risks, they wouldn't step into the ring at all, would they.


He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5.


He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.
Right once again. Which makes for boring, foul-filled fights.


Better science my ass.
Ok, now he's hating.

You offered nothing but agreeing with him.

I exposed the Wlad chin myth.

And exposed the 90's superiority myth too.

The Klitschko's would have dominated in the 90's too imo. Lennox Lewis would have been the most serious factor for them.

[TitoFan]

Excellent post, and I'll break down the reasons why:

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been.
Damn right. Let's quit pussy-footing around this point and call a spade a spade. There's been slow periods in HW, but nothing like the absolute trash there is today.


The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long.
Ditto. See above.


Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model
Someone who's just hating doesn't call the fighter "a great heavyweight champion". No one is trying to totally discredit Wlad. But again... let's be real here. I've said the same thing for years.


but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance.
PRE-FRIGGING-CISELY!!! Most telling fact of all. Wlad takes zero risks. ZERO. And before the certain "blah-blah-blah" about how boxers aren't supposed to take risks....... WRONG. If it was all about not taking any risks, they wouldn't step into the ring at all, would they.


He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5.


He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.
Right once again. Which makes for boring, foul-filled fights.


Better science my ass.
Ok, now he's hating.

You offered nothing but agreeing with him.

I exposed the Wlad chin myth.

And exposed the 90's superiority myth too.

The Klitschko's would have dominated in the 90's too imo. Lennox Lewis would have been the most serious factor for them.

Yeah.... that's the funny thing about arguments, Max.
Someone says something you yourself have said countless times..... you agree.
Someone takes the opposite side..... you disagree.

Hope this helps.

BTW, exposing myths involves a bit more than to say..... "Uhh... I don't think so."

Hope this helps also.

I know you feel that Wlad has an iron chin and throws caution to the wind in order to provide us fans with memorable, exciting fights. I'm sorry most of us are so blind we just don't see it that way. Wlad fouling his way through fights to protect his fine china chin? Nah..... that's just a figment of our imagination.

This generation of HW's is comparable in quality to any other? If you say so... it must be true. I don't know how I could have possible snoozed through classics like Wlad-Sultan and Wlad-Povetkin..... not to mention the epics Wlad-Thompson I and II.

Austin? Piñata....er.... I mean..... Pianeta? Leapai?
Future HOF'ers all of them.

[Max Power]

Yeah.... that's the funny thing about arguments, Max.
Someone says something you yourself have said countless times..... you agree.
Someone takes the opposite side..... you disagree.

Hope this helps.

BTW, exposing myths involves a bit more than to say..... "Uhh... I don't think so."

Hope this helps also.

I know you feel that Wlad has an iron chin and throws caution to the wind in order to provide us fans with memorable, exciting fights. I'm sorry most of us are so blind we just don't see it that way. Wlad fouling his way through fights to protect his fine china chin? Nah..... that's just a figment of our imagination.

This generation of HW's is comparable in quality to any other? If you say so... it must be true. I don't know how I could have possible snoozed through classics like Wlad-Sultan and Wlad-Povetkin..... not to mention the epics Wlad-Thompson I and II.

Austin? Piñata....er.... I mean..... Pianeta? Leapai?
Future HOF'ers all of them.

There is nothing worse than having to respond to a poster who hasn't properly read what has been offered to begin with... But I'll let you off this time...

1. I never said Wladimir has an iron chin. I specifically specified he has a good chin, not an iron one. I specifically said if he gets tagged hard, he gets hurt.

2. It is a good idea, in the modern HW division (WK average opponent weight nearly 240lbs) to keep your chin protected well. Wladimir isn't the only one, even Stiverne who I showed earlier is extremely guarded. They all KNOW that can be KOed easily today with only slight mistakes made. This goes whether you have a hard chin or not!

3. Not taking punches is ALWAYS good boxing. You can criticise if you are Chris Byrd (safety first, safety second), but Wladimir beats the living crap out of his opponents and usually KO's them.

4. I DID say Wladimir had an iron chin, but only in relation to PRE-80's eras! In fact I can't think of ANY pre-80's boxer, as they were then, that definitely had a harder chin than Wladimir! None of them EVER had to withstand the kind of power that they would have to in the modern division. And it makes sense too because pre 80's the average opponent weight started at 200lbs and drops lower and lower as you run time backwards!

5. Fouling? When WK gets DQ'd, then we'll call it fouling. Alexander Povetkin fight? I agree. Wladmir should have been warned. That one fight aside, Muhammad Ali hold's the records for most clinching in HW boxing. Going to discount all his fights too? Yeah right!

6. Wlad vs Sultan was a boring fight. Wlad vs Povetkin was cringe worthy. I agree! There were comparably boring and foul filled fights back in the day too, you are simply biased! Ali himself was responsible for many of them, as well as many other boxers who prefer to fight on the outside! Thompson vs Wladimir 1 and 2 were good fights, by any measure!

7. I don't think those boxers you mentioned would be HOFers. I think many other better WK opponents will definitely be though. Anybody who thinks none of Wladimir's opponents will become HOFers is kidding themselves. If not, the HOF will effectively come to an end! In fact the HOF is worthless. For their to be many HOFers in any one era, NOBODY can really be that good, because if there was anybody that good, they would not allow other boxers to shine so brightly!

HOF is basically nothing more than an honour bestowed on a boxer for his achievements against the criteria of his own era. Nothing more!