Gene Tunney is not an all time great HW

[Beanflicker]

Who whipped Tunney twice?

Kov is a good puncher but Dempsey was vicious.

Greb beat him once and was robbed at least once, the consensus was he got robbed in at least one of Tunney's wins. Harry Greb was 5'8'' and weighed 168 without cutting weight. Andre is 6'0'' and probably walks around 180-190, so he was about the same size as Tunney. Of course this is as hypothetical as a match gets, because they fought almost 100 years apart and as we know Tunney refused to fight blacks.

Kovalev has much better technique and more one-punch power than Dempsey ever had. Dempsey was not a smart guy - he chewed pine tar to strengthen his jaw for fucks sake. He was borderline retarded.

[Max Power]

Who whipped Tunney twice?

Kov is a good puncher but Dempsey was vicious.

Greb beat him once and was robbed at least once, the consensus was he got robbed in at least one of Tunney's wins. Harry Greb was 5'8'' and weighed 168 without cutting weight. Andre is 6'0'' and probably walks around 180-190, so he was about the same size as Tunney. Of course this is as hypothetical as a match gets, because they fought almost 100 years apart and as we know Tunney refused to fight blacks.

Kovalev has much better technique and more one-punch power than Dempsey ever had. Dempsey was not a smart guy - he chewed pine tar to strengthen his jaw for fucks sake. He was borderline retarded.

Second all of that..

Especially "Dempsey was not a smart guy - he chewed pine tar to strengthen his jaw for fucks sake. He was borderline retarded"

LOL You can't buy quotes that good!

[Master]

Have you heard some of your quotes?

[greynotsoold]

Has anybody noticed that James Toney- a 5'10" guy that started his career at 154- held his own at HW? And he didn't even bother to be in shape? For most of his fights at that weight he weighed over 220, couldn't see his own feet. Yet Emmanuel Steward said that he wouldn't let WK fight him.
Toney was taught old school- you know, 'primitive'- skills by Bill Miller, a very old school guy. And he got by on that. And he was mid to late 30s when he started fighting at that weight.

[Max Power]

Has anybody noticed that James Toney- a 5'10" guy that started his career at 154- held his own at HW? And he didn't even bother to be in shape? For most of his fights at that weight he weighed over 220, couldn't see his own feet. Yet Emmanuel Steward said that he wouldn't let WK fight him.
Toney was taught old school- you know, 'primitive'- skills by Bill Miller, a very old school guy. And he got by on that. And he was mid to late 30s when he started fighting at that weight.

What do you mean Toney was taught "Old School"? Toney is a modern boxer. By that measure he was trained BY a modern trainer.

When you look at Freddie Roach and Emanuel Steward, you see Old School right? WRONG! These guys WERE/ARE modern coaches dummy! They're the trainers of the current fighters!

Was Freddie Roach one of the great coaches of the 70's, 60's or 50's? Of course not!

Anyway, nobody is denying Toney is a great boxer. In fact, the better ones SKILLS are, the less they NEED to be in shape! If you have great skills AND are in shape, bonus! At HW there is nothing wrong with being fat and never has been.

What Toney stacked on is a tonne of weight, in the form of muscle AND fat (and a little steroid). Affording him the extra power, strength, chin and resistance to compete at HW.

Toney carried his chin up to HW well (helped no doubt by the chub). He was not a real big hitter, as many sub HW's turn featherfisted when they move up to HW.

Basically Toney's best claim to fame at HW was surviving Peter & Rahman and outboxing Holyfield (another former sub HW).

His chances vs Klitschko are about 1 billion to 1!

[Master]

Do not call greynotsoold a dummy you daft cunt.

Emanuel Steward had links to Eddie Futch and so did Freddie Roach that is old school.

[Max Power]

Do not call greynotsoold a dummy you daft cunt.

Emanuel Steward had links to Eddie Futch and so did Freddie Roach that is old school.

I know he's not REALLY dumb.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. OF course they had links to an older teacher.

My point is that every generation of coaches learns from the previous generation of coaches and builds upon what came before.

How could it be otherwise!

This current generation of coaches, ARE modern coaches, by exact definition!

Whether they got schooled by an even older coach or learned their methods from a text book is completely irrelevant.

A coach's worth is proven by his success with his fighters. If he coaches talented fighters to success, he is a good coach!

[greynotsoold]

Has anybody noticed that James Toney- a 5'10" guy that started his career at 154- held his own at HW? And he didn't even bother to be in shape? For most of his fights at that weight he weighed over 220, couldn't see his own feet. Yet Emmanuel Steward said that he wouldn't let WK fight him.
Toney was taught old school- you know, 'primitive'- skills by Bill Miller, a very old school guy. And he got by on that. And he was mid to late 30s when he started fighting at that weight.

What do you mean Toney was taught "Old School"? Toney is a modern boxer. By that measure he was trained BY a modern trainer.

When you look at Freddie Roach and Emanuel Steward, you see Old School right? WRONG! These guys WERE/ARE modern coaches dummy! They're the trainers of the current fighters!

Was Freddie Roach one of the great coaches of the 70's, 60's or 50's? Of course not!

Anyway, nobody is denying Toney is a great boxer. In fact, the better ones SKILLS are, the less they NEED to be in shape! If you have great skills AND are in shape, bonus! At HW there is nothing wrong with being fat and never has been.

What Toney stacked on is a tonne of weight, in the form of muscle AND fat (and a little steroid). Affording him the extra power, strength, chin and resistance to compete at HW.

Toney carried his chin up to HW well (helped no doubt by the chub). He was not a real big hitter, as many sub HW's turn featherfisted when they move up to HW.

Basically Toney's best claim to fame at HW was surviving Peter & Rahman and outboxing Holyfield (another former sub HW).

His chances vs Klitschko are about 1 billion to 1!

James Toney was trained by Bill Miller, from his first days in the gym. Bill Miller- he also trained Emmanuel Steward, and just about all the Kronk fighters in the early days- was a devotee of Ezzard Charles.
For what it is worth, if you ever go to Freddie Roach's gym and meet him, you'll heart a bunch of guys lamenting the loss of 'old school' boxing skill.

[Max Power]

Has anybody noticed that James Toney- a 5'10" guy that started his career at 154- held his own at HW? And he didn't even bother to be in shape? For most of his fights at that weight he weighed over 220, couldn't see his own feet. Yet Emmanuel Steward said that he wouldn't let WK fight him.
Toney was taught old school- you know, 'primitive'- skills by Bill Miller, a very old school guy. And he got by on that. And he was mid to late 30s when he started fighting at that weight.

What do you mean Toney was taught "Old School"? Toney is a modern boxer. By that measure he was trained BY a modern trainer.

When you look at Freddie Roach and Emanuel Steward, you see Old School right? WRONG! These guys WERE/ARE modern coaches dummy! They're the trainers of the current fighters!

Was Freddie Roach one of the great coaches of the 70's, 60's or 50's? Of course not!

Anyway, nobody is denying Toney is a great boxer. In fact, the better ones SKILLS are, the less they NEED to be in shape! If you have great skills AND are in shape, bonus! At HW there is nothing wrong with being fat and never has been.

What Toney stacked on is a tonne of weight, in the form of muscle AND fat (and a little steroid). Affording him the extra power, strength, chin and resistance to compete at HW.

Toney carried his chin up to HW well (helped no doubt by the chub). He was not a real big hitter, as many sub HW's turn featherfisted when they move up to HW.

Basically Toney's best claim to fame at HW was surviving Peter & Rahman and outboxing Holyfield (another former sub HW).

His chances vs Klitschko are about 1 billion to 1!

James Toney was trained by Bill Miller, from his first days in the gym. Bill Miller- he also trained Emmanuel Steward, and just about all the Kronk fighters in the early days- was a devotee of Ezzard Charles.
For what it is worth, if you ever go to Freddie Roach's gym and meet him, you'll heart a bunch of guys lamenting the loss of 'old school' boxing skill.

Well you know what grey, as much as respect Freddie & Pepper Roach (and I think highly of Wild Card gym too), I do have to draw a line between fact and fiction here.

A conundrum pops up when considering Roach's opinion on that matter (if indeed that's what it is, Roach is known to be nostalgically oriented)...

He is the coach of Manny Pacquaio is he not?

So if these old school boxing skills are "LOST", then WHAT THE HELL IS ROACH TEACHING MANNY?

And what the hell did Miller teach Roach?

Obviously Roach and Steward take what they learned from Miller, develop in further and pass it onto Toney and Pacquaio.

Does this not make sense? I see absolutely NO break in the continuity line, unless at some point recently ALL of the trainers died suddenly without passing anything on!

If you know your history, you will also know that what you and these guys are saying, has been said in practically every era by the old timers of previous ones throughout the dawn of boxing.

Therefore by that logic, boxing has been getting progressively worse since the 1860's until the present? BS!

[Max Power]

Have you heard some of your quotes?

Yeah occasionally I can dish out the odd bashing of a boxer that would no doubt kick my own ass LOL

But we're all guilty of that sometimes aren't we @Master