What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

[Max Power]

Max - Lennox was old and at the end of his career and he still beat Vitali. A peak Lennox would destroy him. Get over it.

Possibly so. I wont fight you on that any further, suffice to say this is how I see it..

A PRE-PRIME Vitali, lost (under unusual circumstances) to a NEAR-PRIME Lennox!

The very best Lennox was only a year and a half prior, vs Rahman II imo.

Vitali continued to get better and better for many years after.

Basically I see Vitali lost to one of the HEAVIEST and THE MOST EXPERIENCED version of Lewis there ever was!

In fact I think there is good chances that if a lighter and more athletic version of Lewis was in that fight, he would have been stopped in 2 rounds by Vitali.

I don't really know who was the better boxer because there are no landslide stats here for me to pull out my ass, but I suspect Vits was overall maybe just a bit better.

Just my opinion and I note, entirely subjective this time round.

[Master]

This is where you make the mistake. Heavier is not better. Lennox was not at his best weight which would have been lighter.

Vitali did not improve technically that much. He always had that robotic style and like any good big brother had to bail out his younger brother when in trouble.

[Max Power]

This is where you make the mistake. Heavier is not better. Lennox was not at his best weight which would have been lighter.

Vitali did not improve technically that much. He always had that robotic style and like any good big brother had to bail out his younger brother when in trouble.

That last part about bailing out little brother, even if it were true, does not make Vitali's case any worse here.

Being out of shape is a disadvantage.

Being heavier is an advantage.

Of course, they often do (and in this case I agree probably did go hand in hand).

So although Lennox might have been a little slower and had a little less stamina, he theoretically would have been able to sap the stamina of VK quicker through weight. He might have had a little more thud on his punches, he DEFINITELY could take a better punch with it. So while some attributes may be worse, some may benefit.

First thing to consider is that Lennox was only 5 bloody lbs over his optimum weight! On a 250lb man this is jack shit! So REALLY we are discussing something extremely petty anyway. Lennox claimed he was in great shape and he did not look anything so soft to me which would have made any real difference to his speed and stamina.

And then I turn to the fight. Lennox was just as fast as he always was at his high 240's anyway.

I will give you that he DID seem to gas earlier than usual, but then again, in all his 43 previous fights he never had another 250lb man pushing the pace on him and smacking him around like a piniata either!

38 years old is not old at all for a modern professional HW boxer, especially with Lewis's style so let's not try to pretend he was too old either! Neither is a 1 year lay off a hinderence these days in a prepared boxer.

[Master]

All your last post in nonsense. It was obvious Lennox was not in prime condition and that was clear to see. Being heavier was therefore a disadvantage for him.

[Max Power]

All your last post in nonsense. It was obvious Lennox was not in prime condition and that was clear to see. Being heavier was therefore a disadvantage for him.

Oh yeah, how so?

Lennox was leaning all over Vitali, (sapping his strength)

LEnnox was fighting more furiously than he had ever fought whole career.

5lbs.. FIVE above Rahman 2 weight.

43 fights worth of experience (41 at 200+ HW) going in.

Objectively was as quick as he was previous, not noticeably slower at all.

By Lennox's OWN admission, he was well prepared. He had already been in camp training for Johnson. It's just a natural occurrence that boxers gain weight as they age.

But "He was puffing hard doe!"

Vitali was also gassed. That happens when 2 gigantic boxers fight at a pace more befitting a middleweight for several rounds, no matter what kind of condition they are in.

You can claim it was because it was because he was out of shape and I can do no more to prove otherwise, but I can make my claim and you can do no better likewise!

But if an in shape Lennox could have beaten Vitali properly, then why did he retire?

Nothing left to prove? I would say that after that fight, he certainly had one more thing to prove.

[Silkeyjoe]

I know this wont be popular but I think Wlad is the best heavyweight of all time. I cant see a fighter I would make favorite to beat him. I dont think Ali is big and strong enough to handle him. I cannot see how a 5'10 Marciano or Tyson could get anywhere near him. The guys Id give the best chance of beating him are Vitali and Lennox.

[palmerq]

All your last post in nonsense. It was obvious Lennox was not in prime condition and that was clear to see. Being heavier was therefore a disadvantage for him.

Oh yeah, how so?

Lennox was leaning all over Vitali, (sapping his strength)

LEnnox was fighting more furiously than he had ever fought whole career.

5lbs.. FIVE above Rahman 2 weight.

43 fights worth of experience (41 at 200+ HW) going in.

Objectively was as quick as he was previous, not noticeably slower at all.

By Lennox's OWN admission, he was well prepared. He had already been in camp training for Johnson. It's just a natural occurrence that boxers gain weight as they age.

But "He was puffing hard doe!"

Vitali was also gassed. That happens when 2 gigantic boxers fight at a pace more befitting a middleweight for several rounds, no matter what kind of condition they are in.

You can claim it was because it was because he was out of shape and I can do no more to prove otherwise, but I can make my claim and you can do no better likewise!

But if an in shape Lennox could have beaten Vitali properly, then why did he retire?

Nothing left to prove? I would say that after that fight, he certainly had one more thing to prove.

you need to research better before making posts :S... lewis was 10 pounds heavier than the rahman 2 fight.. Although I do think lewis retired because he didn't want anything to do with vitali in a rematch, which is fair enough he had done it all and was rich he earned the right to retire whenever he felt like it.

[Beanz]

Haven't we all already had a go on this roundabout?

[Master]

All your last post in nonsense. It was obvious Lennox was not in prime condition and that was clear to see. Being heavier was therefore a disadvantage for him.

Oh yeah, how so?

Lennox was leaning all over Vitali, (sapping his strength)

LEnnox was fighting more furiously than he had ever fought whole career.

5lbs.. FIVE above Rahman 2 weight.

43 fights worth of experience (41 at 200+ HW) going in.

Objectively was as quick as he was previous, not noticeably slower at all.

By Lennox's OWN admission, he was well prepared. He had already been in camp training for Johnson. It's just a natural occurrence that boxers gain weight as they age.

But "He was puffing hard doe!"

Vitali was also gassed. That happens when 2 gigantic boxers fight at a pace more befitting a middleweight for several rounds, no matter what kind of condition they are in.

You can claim it was because it was because he was out of shape and I can do no more to prove otherwise, but I can make my claim and you can do no better likewise!

But if an in shape Lennox could have beaten Vitali properly, then why did he retire?

Nothing left to prove? I would say that after that fight, he certainly had one more thing to prove.

He beat Vitali and there was nothing else to prove. Should he have waited until Vitali's eye got better?

[Max Power]

He beat Vitali and there was nothing else to prove. Should he have waited until Vitali's eye got better?

Commentary before the Johnson fight.. Interviewed by Lampley...

Lennox Lewis "I don't want to get in the ring with Vitali again until I can be certain about his eye"

Vitali Klitschko "The doctors cleared my eye weeks ago, Lewis is ducking me now"

[Beanflicker]

Muhammad Ali had fast hands and was the greatest HW of all time, I don't see what more can be said about him.

[Master]

Muhammad Ali had fast hands and was the greatest HW of all time, I don't see what more can be said about him.

Tell that to your boyfriend Max Power who discredits him at every turn.

[fan johnny]

Muhammad Ali had fast hands and was the greatest HW of all time, I don't see what more can be said about him.

Well... I just learned that because he had no reflexes he wanted to get hit to wear down his opponents. Who knew? Maybe that where Mayorga got his inspiration for his fight with mosley?

[Max Power]

Muhammad Ali had fast hands and was the greatest HW of all time, I don't see what more can be said about him.

Well... I just learned that because he had no reflexes he wanted to get hit to wear down his opponents. Who knew? Maybe that where Mayorga got his inspiration for his fight with mosley?

There's no question about it...

Even his daughter claimed so about her own father "He would let his opponents beat on him in order for them to wear themselves out"

And a trainer during sparring "Ali, why you keep getting hit?" Ali.. "I want to get accustomed to the blows".

It was exactly this strategy he employed vs Foreman and others.

I will submit a comprehensive list if you like stretching back throughout career and you can inform me where my analysis has gone haywire.

[Max Power]

The manufactured career of Clay/Ali is such that Deontay Wilder's doesn't look all that bad by comparison, considering how he dealt with such doubtful opposition.