Gene Tunney is not an all time great HW

[Max Power]

Has anybody noticed that James Toney- a 5'10" guy that started his career at 154- held his own at HW? And he didn't even bother to be in shape? For most of his fights at that weight he weighed over 220, couldn't see his own feet. Yet Emmanuel Steward said that he wouldn't let WK fight him.
Toney was taught old school- you know, 'primitive'- skills by Bill Miller, a very old school guy. And he got by on that. And he was mid to late 30s when he started fighting at that weight.

What do you mean Toney was taught "Old School"? Toney is a modern boxer. By that measure he was trained BY a modern trainer.

When you look at Freddie Roach and Emanuel Steward, you see Old School right? WRONG! These guys WERE/ARE modern coaches dummy! They're the trainers of the current fighters!

Was Freddie Roach one of the great coaches of the 70's, 60's or 50's? Of course not!

Anyway, nobody is denying Toney is a great boxer. In fact, the better ones SKILLS are, the less they NEED to be in shape! If you have great skills AND are in shape, bonus! At HW there is nothing wrong with being fat and never has been.

What Toney stacked on is a tonne of weight, in the form of muscle AND fat (and a little steroid). Affording him the extra power, strength, chin and resistance to compete at HW.

Toney carried his chin up to HW well (helped no doubt by the chub). He was not a real big hitter, as many sub HW's turn featherfisted when they move up to HW.

Basically Toney's best claim to fame at HW was surviving Peter & Rahman and outboxing Holyfield (another former sub HW).

His chances vs Klitschko are about 1 billion to 1!

James Toney was trained by Bill Miller, from his first days in the gym. Bill Miller- he also trained Emmanuel Steward, and just about all the Kronk fighters in the early days- was a devotee of Ezzard Charles.
For what it is worth, if you ever go to Freddie Roach's gym and meet him, you'll heart a bunch of guys lamenting the loss of 'old school' boxing skill.

Well you know what grey, as much as respect Freddie & Pepper Roach (and I think highly of Wild Card gym too), I do have to draw a line between fact and fiction here.

A conundrum pops up when considering Roach's opinion on that matter (if indeed that's what it is, Roach is known to be nostalgically oriented)...

He is the coach of Manny Pacquaio is he not?

So if these old school boxing skills are "LOST", then WHAT THE HELL IS ROACH TEACHING MANNY?

And what the hell did Miller teach Roach?

Obviously Roach and Steward take what they learned from Miller, develop in further and pass it onto Toney and Pacquaio.

Does this not make sense? I see absolutely NO break in the continuity line, unless at some point recently ALL of the trainers died suddenly without passing anything on!

If you know your history, you will also know that what you and these guys are saying, has been said in practically every era by the old timers of previous ones throughout the dawn of boxing.

Therefore by that logic, boxing has been getting progressively worse since the 1860's until the present? BS!